The circularity of Christian apologetic arguments should be obvious to everyone. If we first assume Jesus and his followers existed then we can prove they existed! We do know a little about what was happening in Judea and there’s no trace of Jesus, the disciples or any of the events described in the Bible. Every indication is that the writers and redactors of the New Testament were Christian evangelists headquartered at the world’s largest fabrication factory in Rome.
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Boris is telling us that he made up his mind 20 years ago. We need to accept that some people never give up their lost causes.
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If I am to be insulted I must first value your opinion.
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You said we knew what the sources of Luke’s gospel were. If they were traditions launched by “someone else” unnamed, then we don’t know what his sources were.
Please try to do better than this.
We don’t know who wrote any of the biblical texts. However the writer’s own imagination or someone else’s plus Mark and Josephus are the sources. Mark’s Gospel is almost for sure a mystery drama, a play written with dialog for actors so someone made all of that up too. Now you’re just nit picking. Please try to do better than this.
When you meet the Edgar, you will understand. By the way, its not an insult, but a comparison of your modes of argumentation.
It’s hardly a lost cause. You’ve been reduced to attacking the messenger instead of the message.
@Boris_Badenoff I think there is a deeper problem with the argument you are making: Nobody cares. You could be completely right and it would change nothing. Religion plays an important role in culture and society, and that is the reality we have to deal with. I happen to think you are partly right, I’m just not sure which parts you are right about. I look around and see that religion can be a meaningful part of peoples’ lives, and they place great value on their relationship with God. They believe it is real and that is all that matters. Most seem happy this way.
I understand that you strongly dislike religion, this is not uncommon among atheists, but it’s not the only way to be an atheist either. I urge you to consider taking a more constructive approach, rather than the path you are on now. Frankly, you sound a lot like some of those YECs who maintain there is no evidence for evolution; your methods are the same. There are better arguments to be made, and better way to spend your time, than in an argument that have no end.
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I strongly dislike religion too, but I try not to be an asshole about it. That seems a worthwhile effort, and I commend it to @Boris_Badenoff.
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I don’t remember saying that I strongly dislike religion. Religion can indeed be a meaningful part of people’s lives. Just look at what is happening in Afghanistan. How about the cultural genocide in Canada? The Pope is sorry about all the children buried in unmarked graves. Or so he says. That just won’t do. Then there’s the religious violence and lethal attacks in Europe. A woman wearing a Charlie Hebdo shirt was stabbed by a religious nutter. This conversion therapy stuff is religion based as is most of the opposition to reproductive rights and marriage rights. Then of course we have the rampant pedophilia in the Catholic Church and the ensuing cover-ups. I could go on but it’s probably not good to blame an ideology for perversions of its teachings. It should be apparent that I have a problem with the way believers and non-believers view the holy writs. If people knew how to interpret them properly, what they’re really about, we likely wouldn’t have the problems caused by these gross misunderstandings.
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So you say!
There is good reason to believe Jesus at least existed.
Bart Ehrman refuting mythicism
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What specifically in Josephus writings did Luke copy? Where in the gospel of Luke can we find content copied from Josephus?
I think it’s rude to post a link or a video and expect someone to watch it or read something. That tells me I’m talking with someone who can’t make or support their own arguments and probably doesn’t know what they’re talking about. The gospel of intelligent design magic evangelists often do this when they’re losing an argument. I’d love a chance to debate the gullible crackpot aka Mr. Bart Ehrman. Ehrman is NOT an historian. A Masters of Divinity and studying the biblical languages at Moody Bible College which is closer to being an insane asylum than a legitimate college does not an historian make. I actually have a History degree and studied the Bible and Koine Greek but never having worked in the field I wouldn’t even think of calling myself an historian.
However I did watch the video and it’s ridiculous. We have plenty of evidence for Julius Caesar. Ehrman’s whataboutism is just childish. Paul is a witness? Who cares about Galatians? When someone says. “I do not lie!” they’re probably lying. So the claims made by the author are probably not true. We have two conflicting and ludicrous, fanciful versions of Paul meeting a resurrected Jesus on the road to Damascus. Nowhere do the epistles mention an earthly ministry of Jesus. So you tell me at what point did Ehrman prove anything at all other than he doesn’t recognize logical fallacies and what do you think he proved?
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I hope your realize that half the people telling you your wrong are atheists and agnostics?
Moreover almost all of us have spent more timing putting to rest bad ID arguments than just about anyone you’ve met….
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Atheists and agnostics are not immune from making awful arguments and committing logical fallacies. Christians are not immune from being rational and educated. The people telling me I’m wrong haven’t made their case and I think I’ve made mine very well.
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Many scholars who have History degrees, studied the Bible and Koine Greek and multiple decades worth of experience accept the existence of Jesus Christ. Your opinion doesn’t count against evidence.
Like I said earlier on, there are claims in the Bible such as the resurrection of Jesus or his walking on water that sound mythic and are not supported by good evidence. Maybe you can launch attacks from those angles, but just not a position that has fairly good evidence on its side.
What is this evidence? If there was any evidence we wouldn’t be having this conversation. The reason these “scholars” accept the existence of Jesus is they believe that the New Testament is at least somewhat accurate in varying degrees. So what do we have from outside of the Bible that could corroborate anything in the New Testament? Just the stuff besides the miraculous. Name it and claim it please. Exactly what is this evidence?
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This is bollocks. Certain details in the New Testament are historically accurate as confirmed by archaeological finds. These are facts, not unfounded beliefs.
Discovery of the Sergius Paulus Inscriptions and the Pool of Siloam, for examples.
For reference, I used to moderate a large atheism community on (the now defunct) Google Plus. There I got to see all the different styles (for lack of a better word) of atheism. You seem to fall in with the “angry atheist” group, but that’s just my term for it, and possibly unfair since I don’t actually know much about you. 
That’s reasonable, I think. Of all these problems associated with religion, I find that most believers are just as concerned as we are.