Nathaniel Jeanson and Herman Mays: A YEC-Evolutionist Debate

(Blogging Graduate Student) #1

The title is pretty self-explanatory. I thought I’d inform interested parties (@swamidass?) on this forum that there will be a debate between Nathaniel Jeanson (AIG) and Herman Mays (Marshall University) on the genetic arguments Jeanson presents for young-earth creationist account of the diversity of life.

The debate is hosted by “The NonSequitur Show” and will be streamed live on youtube here, beginning at 8pm EST (Midnight UTC):

I thought this post could also become a thread to discuss the debate and any interesting insights that come out of it.

(Dr. Patrick Trischitta) #2

I have an idea. Why don’t we all watch the debate here at Peaceful Science and do live commentary while it is happening? It will be like watching a boxing match at the neighborhood bar. We can each keep score and argue over who is winning.

(Curtis Henderson) #3

If I’m not busy (that’s always a danger :stuck_out_tongue: ), it would be interesting to pop in and discuss it!

(Blogging Graduate Student) #4

There will also be an “aftershow” google hangout organised by the hosts to discuss the debate live right after the debate ends. It probably will not be as… polite… as on this forum though.


Thanks for the notice.
Yay. Debates. Slow clap…

(Blogging Graduate Student) #6

Bump. 40 minutes out.

(Dr. Patrick Trischitta) #7

Dr. Jeanson is actually informative here.

Quasi-science. I like that better than psuedo-science.

Dr. Mays’ data and evidence is very compelling. I like how he models AIG Kinds and Common Design and Common Ancestry. The evidence for Common Ancestry is overwhelming and essentially falsifies kinds and Common Design.

Dr. Mays is clear in that science is neutral on the question of God. He is not in agreement with Dawkins and Coyne that the evidence points to atheism. He affirms that science is neutral and you can have a belief in God and accept evolution -common ancestry. Dr. May stated he is not an atheist.

Dr. Mays has Dr. Jeanson on the ropes. Dr. Jeanson is outmatched. What do others see?

Dr. Mays’ models common ancestry vs. common design on functionality vs. separate kinds. All point to common ancestry with overwhelming statistics.

Dr. Mays destroys Dr. Jeanson on the coalesce of mtDNA vs. coalesce of nuclear DNA. If mtDNA coalesce at 6000 years, nuclear DNA coalesces much longer time ago.

(Curtis Henderson) #8

I didn’t get approved. Maybe it will be available later.

(Blogging Graduate Student) #9

Approved? For what?

(S. Joshua Swamidass) #10

Please do this. Put as detailed comments on the arguments going back and forth as possible. Thanks.

(S. Joshua Swamidass) #11

Hehe. So a YEC at AIG is not doing Pseudoscience. I gotta laugh at that one.

(Dr. Patrick Trischitta) #12

Yes, they are doing quasi-science. I guess they all have quasi-PhDs.

(Curtis Henderson) #13

YouTube told me I needed approval to watch the event. I don’t know what to make of that.

(Blogging Graduate Student) #14

Hmmm that’s strange. It’s a completely public stream. It’s almost over now, but you will certainly be able to watch it later. Spoiler alert, nothing much came out of it.

(S. Joshua Swamidass) #15

Is Dr. Mays worth inviting here? If so, does someone what to reach out?

I bet he didn’t point to the TMR4A work, which would have been very hard for Jeanson to explain away.

(Dr. Patrick Trischitta) #16

Absolutely. Dr. Mays would be a great person to add here. His models can answer a lot of questions.

(Blogging Graduate Student) #17

Yes, I’m sure Herman would be worth inviting here. He didn’t point to the TMR4A work.

(S. Joshua Swamidass) #18

Want to invite him to an Office Hours? See: Organizing Office Hours. Also, point him to: Heliocentric Certainty Against a Bottleneck of Two?.

We need to get the word out about TMR4A because it is the autosome analogue of his mito-study, using much stronger mutational rate evidence.

(Blogging Graduate Student) #19

Sure, I’ll reach out and invite him.

(Curtis Henderson) #20

Hahahaha, yes you completely ruined it for me! :stuck_out_tongue: