Petroleum geology predictions

As a (now retired) Petroleum Geologist I have to take issue with this. In hydrocarbon exploration we use data gathered today to build models about the geological past, from which we predict where we have the best chance of finding oil or gas when we drill for it. Drilling is the test, and I can assure you that the success rates are very significantly higher than if we were to drill at random.

So yes, we can test our interpretations of the past, as I have done so many times myself. Processes form the past leave traces in the here and now that we can use to scientifically work out what happened. Historical/Operational Science is a made-up distinction.

@faded_Glory You posted this in a different thread and I thought it was fascinating. I’ve heard of this before, and I think the profit motive of petroleum geology makes it an “independent witness” that even YECs should acknowledge. But I haven’t had the chance to ask questions of someone with firsthand experience.

Can you please say more? Like, describe the sort of thing you would see and the events you would deduce? How does reconstructing events lead to discoveries in a way that a heuristic like “oil tends to be near fossils like these” wouldn’t?

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my deceased father-in-law entire career as a geologist was working in the South American jungles exploring for oil…the preliminary work took 10 years alone…no oil company is going to risk millions of dollars in drilling for oil unless the are absolutely certain the can get a return on their investment

Petroleum Geoogy is a broad subject and one could write books about it - indeed, many books have been written about it, as well as huge numbers of papers in the scientific literature.

Why it is relevant to the conversation is that it is a historical science (firmly grounded in empirical data and the known processes of physics, chemistry and biology, with at times a smattering of astronomy as well) where our hypotheses are regularly tested.

You don’t find hydrocarbons by throwing darts at the map. In the words of a famous early Petroleum Geologist, Wallace Pratt, “oil is found in the minds of men”. In his days they turned their ideas into analog models, paper maps, correlation panels, cross sections, burial graphs etc. Nowadays everything is of course digital so we construct computer models that are vastly more intricate and complex and can perform orders of magnitude more, and more accurate, calculations. But even then, the seed of the discovery resides in the mind of the geologist.

Our models need to be in four dimensions, since time is an essential element in geology. It takes time to deposit the sediments that eventually wil generate hydrocarbons, reservoirs and cap rocks. It takes time to deform strata to create traps and it takes time for hydrocarbons to migrate from their source area into the reservoirs.None of these processes are instantaneous or fast, in human terms. Using computer models we can speed up time and simulate the entire process, always within the constraints of known physics, to understand if and where we may encounter oil or gas.

As input data we uses virtually all geological, geophysical and geochemical data that we can lay our hands on, the more the better. Unfortunately, it will never be enough because or models will always be vastly undersampled and not all processes are understood as well as we would like. Even so, the success rate in the industry has long been more than enough to make it profitable, and vastly more so than if we would just throw darts at a map.

Oil is found in geologically favourable places. The task of the geologist is to understand what factors are favourable and predict where these places may be. In addition, almost equally important is to understand and quantify the risk of getting it wrong. This is one reason why we try to be as quantitative as we can, so that we can use statistical methods for quantifying uncertainty. This is actually not at all straightforward, and to minimise personal bias such evaluations are normally done by a review-and-challenge panel rather than by individuals.

Reconstructing events aims to tell us where the hydrocarbon source may be, when it may have started generating and expelling oil and/or gas. It aims to tell us where suitable reservoir rocks may be, and if and when they may have been deformed to create traps, or if they have perhaps been adversely been affected by diagenetic alterations. It aims to tell us if there is a chance of an impermeable seal overlying the reservoir so that the hydrocarbons can’t escape to the surface and be lost. It aims to inform us about potentially dangerous or even catastrophic overpressures deep in the subsurface that may be encountered during drilling.

It is a plain and simple fact that no wells would get drilled if we didn’t have at least some model of the geological history of an area. The risks are simply to great, both technical and economical. It is also a plain and simple fact that nobody has ever made a useful petroleum geological model starting from YEC assumptions. Just saying.

Every time we drill a well we test our model, and whatever the results we update and refine them. Even dry holes will yield large amounts of important data that will be used in future models and proposals. Clearly, a dry hole will require more substantial model revisions than a successful well. Parts of the model will be falsified and cannot be taken forward unchanged. In this way our assumptions are tested and our knowledge keeps evolving and growing.

There is one unfortunate factor in all of this, which is that due to the highly competitive nature of the industry a great amount of data and models reside in corporate archives and will only very slowly be released into the public domain. There is a lot to find in the published literature, but even that only skims the surface of what would be available if everything were to be disclosed. Who knows, once the time comes when oil and gas have lost their importance (and eventally, such a time will come), all that data may be released to the benefit of all of geological science. And beyond, I think.

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Is anyone here not already familiar with Glenn Morton (@grmorton)? He paid us a visit here shortly before his passing.

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From his post in Biologos

I worked in the oil industry and when I was 29 was in charge of recruiting and training geophysicists for Atlantic Richfield, which at the time employed 50,000 people, probably 1000 geophysicists. I hired geophysicists from Christian Heritage College, Henry Morris’ college. After a few years, they either left the industry because they couldn’t justify what they saw with what Henry taught, or they gave up the young earth. We didn’t indoctrinate them, it was the data that did it. And at the time, I was still a YEC myself. But by the mid 1980s, I threw in the towel.

The geologic data simply doesn’t support a young earth.

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Yes I know of Glenn Morton, also a Petroleum Geoscientist. He was honest enough to admit that the data shows that pretty much everything he had been told about a Young Earth was wrong. His PS article is here.

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Thanks, that’s fascinating.

I thought of an analogy for “historical science”: a woodsman finds animal tracks, identifies them, and follows them. He narrates what the creature was doing - eating, drinking, resting. A observer naysays him at every step, but the woodsman finally finds the creature in its den. His finding validates his story.

Alternately: Sherlock Holmes says “here’s how the crime was done, and if I’m right, the gun is in the pond.” When it’s found, his version of the story looks credible.

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I love how your description highlights both the potential profits and the dangers that depend on modeling the geologic history correctly.

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Just one more and I’ll stop de-railing - I promise. :slight_smile:

Today on FB I was reminded of Morton’s Demon, which I knew about already, but I had never made the connection to Glenn Morton.

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Yes, these are all examples of how we can test our interpretations of what happened in the past. As I said in an earlier post: past processes can leave traces in the present. Different proceses can leave different traces and in that way we can validate or invalidate (falsify) our hypotheses about what happened.

This is really quite obvious once you think about it, and we do this all the time, not just in science. What about forensics for instance? The idea that we can only know about the past through witness testimony is absurd. In fact, witness testimony has been show time and again to be notoriously limited in reliability when compared to physical data.

I’m hesitant to reply to here; I’m already in one other thread, and I find I’m generally only good for a few posts a day here.

But, I will share my thoughts on this one.

Many times here the fact that the Oil and Gas industry relies on naturalistic models is used as proof that Flood Geology (YECs Global Flood from the Bible) is false.

Consider [with emphasis]:

I’m glad you mentioned that! Although your models do have elements of deep-time in them, they are ultimately built on existing observations: The rocks themselves; which YECs hold were laid down differently than naturalists. If you continue to refine your model based on what you observe, you’re going to get improvements on that model, regardless. And yours “working” doesn’t invalidate a competing hypothesis.

A perfect analogy of this is the Geocentric model, which made decent predictions of planet motion (until the Heliocentric model replaced it). Those models were built from observation. And that’s exactly what you just described.

That’s what Flood Geologists would do as well. Honestly, once fully developed, our models would almost certainly yield very similar results (as in “You should drill here”).

But, as far as a competitive Flood Geology model is concerned: We are too many years behind, too short on expertise, and too short on funding at this point to complete. Yes, the naturalists have cornered the market!

And SINCE we have not developed our models as fully as yours, it’s a bit disingenuous to boast about how better your models are to ones we haven’t fully developed yet. How do you KNOW yours would really out-perform ours?

I always enjoy seeing Glenn Morton being mentioned here. And I’m glad you just mentioned him because it’s relevant to my previous post to @faded_Glory (which hopefully got approved before this one).

His testimony is a favorite one brought up here often:

Why I Left Young-Earth Creationism

Notice that his doubts about YEC grew stronger “by 1986”. And he includes quotes from fellow YECs from that timeframe.

And here’s a quote from him that Ron provided:

That was now 3 decades ago**!**

I personally started following this topic in the early 90s, and can attest that back then the evidence for YEC was pretty sparse!

Since then, SO MUCH HAS CHANGED.

I love the Glenn Morton article because it shows the great TRAJECTORY we YECs are on! And within the YEC community, there has been growing excitement. I’ve been seeing that sentiment increasing lately. Things that people outside the YEC community aren’t privy to (yet).

I’ve reached a point that I cannot look at the world any other way then it having been Globally Flooded. That is certainly not a statement I would have made back in the 90s.

As the adage goes: science changes, scripture doesn’t. Flood Geology is an example.

@faded_Glory (following up from other post) , Do we lack a model as robust as yours? Yes. AS YOU CAN SEE, and well demonstrated here, we’ve gotten a pretty late start. But it’s in the works; and encouraging, and exciting. Scientific revolutions start slow (especially on emotive topics that challenge someone’s whole world-view).

Well no, It really hasn’t changed at all. Flood Geology looks at one feature at a time, says “a flood could have done this”. There is no effort to make a systematic study of all geologic features and reach general conclusions. That’s why oilfield geologists don’t use Flood Geology even if they are YEC.

If you look at the changes that are made in science, you will find the overwhelming majority of those changes are refinements on the previous model of understanding. Only rarely is there a paradigm shift in understanding, and even then the previous understanding is wrong by degree, not in whole.

A classical example is the theory of Gravity, first proposed by Issac Newton. BUT Newton was wrong, his theory improved upon by Albert Einstein with General Relativity. BUT Einstein was wrong, his theory improved upon by Quantum Mechanics.

Newton’s theory of gravity, now twice wrong, is still pretty darn good. We sent people to the Moon with Newton’s theory. Such is the case with Geology and all the sciences where data is available to test theory (Cosmology is admittedly lacking here).

Flood Geology doesn’t do any of this, nor for that matter does any of Creation Science. Creation Science is apologetics. You can’t use this “science” to actually do anything useful, or that isn’t already done much better by existing science. It isn’t even reasonable to expect that apologetics could do anything that science does - they are not all all the same.

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I imagine it’s exhausting.

Nope. It’s EVIDENCE that YECism is false. You conveniently omitted that the fact that YECs don’t employ “flood geology” to find oil and gas is even stronger evidence that not only is it false, but that YECs don’t have faith in it.

But they don’t believe in it enough to build their own models.

No, it isn’t analogous. because the replacement was based on observations, not opinions.

No, they lack the faith to do anything of the sort.

No, they honestly wouldn’t, or there would be YEC oil companies.

Nope. YECs have plenty of money. They lack faith.

Because you’re not investing any money in them. That shows that YOU know they won’t perform.

No, it’s still nonexistent.

It hasn’t gone anywhere.

If it was any of those, you’d cite new evidence. You don’t have any.

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That makes it seem like there was MORE evidence for YEC back then. I think that the evidence for YEC is practically non-existent, even now. But if you can come up with any I’ll consider it.

The biggest change, it seems to me is the YEC move to endorsing hyper-macroevolution, which admittedly deals with the problem of fitting everything on Noah’s Ark. But at the cost of making creationism look even more arbitrary. If evolution can happen that quickly, to that degree why should we assume that it’s restricted to keeping within the arbitrary creationist kinds? The evidence for common ancestry shows no such boundaries.

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In the interest of elucidation, I’d love to see this topic stick to oil and gas geology

Surely if the flood, not deep time, were the mechanism behind the strata, a flood geology based model would not yield similar but radically better oil and gas findings? Conventional models would be only right by accident sometimes, like an animal tracker who misidentifies prints but sometimes stumbles on a fox den anyway. YECS who work in the field could revolutionize it by telling the true story of the strata and making billions in the process.

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Interesting you made that comment.
Quite a while ago I mentioned Dr Tim Clarey’s book “Carved in Stone”, where he did a very exhaustive look at three different continents and compared all three together. It was very compelling. I had been looking forward to him finishing the other continents.

So JUST after I posted my original post, and before reading your comment, I happened to watch this interview with him:

So apparently he’s finished two other continents. And this was a summary of that research.

If you listen to the first 40 minutes, you’ll see him doing what you described, a “systematic study of all geologic features and reach general conclusions”

That is not possible, because flood geology is contrary and incompatible with evidence supporting conventional understanding of earth history. The flood would not produce the same outcomes as scientifically validated processes, so the results can never be similar. If there actually was a global flood, then the success of petroleum geologists can only be due to freak chance, without any semblance of foundation. That is delusional.

Creative model building is not the point of geology. We learn from nature, we do not get to tell nature how it should be or how it should conform to systematic theology.

Here is a real model based on a literal Genesis. There are no pyramids, as these were build prior to the flood. There were no dinosaurs, as there are none in the Bible, and Behemoth and Leviathan are clearly not dinosaurs. There are no radiometric dates earlier than 6,000 years, and there are no stars visible from beyond 6,000 light years distant. Adam named every species. Of course, that is not the world we see, and the scheme presented by apologetic organizations does not match the simple Biblical narrative. That is because flood geology does not explain the evidence, but is an attempt to explain away the evidence.

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It makes absolutely no sense to claim that both models would yield the same results.

If a global flood is really responsible for the Earth’s geological features, then conventional ‘old-Earth’ geology shouldn’t be able to produce real-world results in fields like oil & gas exploration in the first place.

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Right. I have no desire at all to get into the tired old debate on the endless problems with YEC, which are legion and have all been exhaustively debunked many times before, to no measurable effect it would seem.

Back to petroleum geology then. One important factor that needs to be established with some degree of confidence when planning exploration wells is the potential of an area to generate hydrocarbons in the first place. Specific models are built to get a handle on this, so called ‘basin models’. A basin in the geological sense is a confined geographical area where significant thicknesses of sediments have been deposited over time. Such basins are often very favourable for oil and gas accumulation because many of the critical elements are present, such as source, reservoir and cap rocks. Basins are formed by subsidence of the Earth crust over time, generating space for large volumes of sediment to accumulate, often derived from erosion of surrounding land masses but also from more local formation of biogenic calcareous sediments. Basins can contain sediment piles of hundreds to thousands of meters thick and can be tens of thousands to a million square kilometers in size. There are many hundreds of such basins in the world.

Where it gets interesting is that basin models use geological history and geochemistry to calculate the possible volume of hydrocarbons that a specific basin may have generated. To do this we need estimates of the thicknesses of the various sedimentary layers and their ages. We get this from whatever outcrop and well data we have, plus usually an amount of geophysical data obtained from gravity, magnetic and seismic surveys. Very importantly we also need estimates of the amount and type of hydrocarbon source rock that may be present in the basin. Finally we need an estimate of the heat flow through the basin and how it varies over time, such estimates ideally come data obtained by wells already drilled in the basin, or else from suitable analogs elsewhere, all based on well understood physics of course.

The basin modeller will then pull together all the data into a 2D or 3D model that simulates the development of the basin through time. As the sediment gets deposited and the basin subsides the temperature of the rock will gradually increase until it reaches the so-called ‘oil window’ where oil can be generated from organic material trapped in the sediment (usually the fine grained fraction, i.e. mudstones and shales). This oil generation process is driven by geochemical reactions that depend on temperature and time. As either of these increases, eventually the conditions change and oil will be transformed into gas (the gas window). Ultimately, the conditions become too extreme for hydrocarbons to be generated and the source rock becomes ‘overcooked’ - no longer capable of generating oil or gas.

The potential volumes of oil and gas can be estimated from the source rock amount and characteristics and their thermal history. The basin model will provide such estimates, often of course with significant uncertainty ranges because, as always, our data are limited.

Another important factor we need to consider is the timing of hydrocarbon generation versus trap formation. It is of no use if the source rock goes through the oil and gas window before the reservoir rocks have been deformed into the structures that can trap hydrocarbons. Working out the timing of events is therefore critical, and this is why the overall geological history of the basin is of such importance.

These days basin models are very common and used throughout the life cycle of basin exploration. The models are kept up to date with all the accumulating data as exploration progresses. Often basins vary internally as to how prospective they are, and understanding potentially richer and poorer domains is clearly essential for defining the optimal exploration strategy.

Basin modelling draws on vast amounts of global, regional and local geological data, insights and processes that have been painstakingly obtained over decades, if by now not centuries of geological work. It obviously honours and relies on what we know about the geological time scale. It should be clear that they can never work under Young Earth assumptions, yet across the globe they are being successfully tested time and again during hydrocarbon exploration.

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