I don’t want to get distracted. This whole side discussion has to do with @John_Harshman taking issue with me referring to the Sumerians as humanity’s first scientists. I was attempting to defend the Sumerians. It’s not important.
I appreciate this. I’m endlessly fascinated by this stuff. But it’s not really relevant to the primary point. John and I got distracted.
But, again, I’d like to point out how these discussions end up teaching everyone something. Look at what you learned and I learned from you about this Sumerian image.
Instead of two sides arguing over which side is right, what about we all admit we don’t know anything and have the discussion, from elementary school on up.
Sermon over.
Not directly, but it does serve as a demonstration that you will pull any nonsense off the web if you think it will fit your claims, regardless of how absurd it is. You need a filter. Of course if you had one it would filter out all your claims.
But some of us do know some things. Isn’t that why you claim to be here, to learn from the people who do know some things?
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We all know some things. But we don’t know which is right. Or if both are right. When it comes to the questions outside of science’s jurisdiction and beyond demonstrable certainty, none of us know anything.
You’ve been my filter so far, and it all still seems to be coming through just fine.
Some of us do. You have, for example, been consistently wrong about almost everything.
Beg to differ. You just ignore or reject everything I say.
Say something right and I’ll agree with you.
Has this ever happened?
And, according to you, some in Scotland, some in China, some in Peru… all of which you include in “that immediate region of the world”.
You’re distorting history, geography and mythology to invent whatever stories are needed for your pet ideas, just as you did when trying to shoehorn the Genesis creation sequence onto palaeontology, and because you don’t really know much about mythology either, you don’t know how obviously wrong your statements are.
There’s different phases to this. What started in the Cradle of Civilization pretty quickly radiated out into different regions.
It’s easy for things to get confused. And I realize my part in that. Yes, other cultures also had anthropomorphic gods, but the ones I’m speaking of initially are those we’re most familiar with.
If beings like this actually did exist for 2000 years, what should we expect to see in the evidence? The mythologies that originate in the birthplace of civilization is one of those expected results.
What is your evidence for such a claim? You have none.
That’s not good enough. You have to think of something we would expect not to see if such beings didn’t exist. Since anthropormorphic gods are found all over the world, not just Mesopotamia, yet you propose these long-lived beings only there, your proposition is falsified.
And why only 2000 years? Why won’t you accept that some Sumerian kings lived for 30,000 or 40,000 years? What about Hindu yugas of hundreds of billions of years? Cherry-picking.
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It’s your idea - you should know what the expected evidence is more than anyone else.
It’s difficult to know what evidence to expect, because your scenario is vague and ambiguous. But obvious consequences include that
- the mythologies of Egypt, Rome and Babylon should include the same or similar concepts, imagery and beings;
- myths of other peoples would also include many of those concepts;
- human cultural migration would originate in the Middle East;
- human genetics would also suggest a Middle Eastern origin;
- there would be evidence of major shifts in culture elsewhere at times correlating with distance from the Middle East;
and of course
- you would be able to support your claims without constant evasion, omission and distortion.
Not sure you can call it vague. It’s postulating a group of long living beings existing from 5500 to 3500 BC, initially concentrated in Mesopotamia, then scattered throughout the region after Babel at 3900 BC.
I’d say that’s pretty specific.
You would. But “throughout the region” is exceedingly vague, and so is “after”. Is Peru in “the region”? When did these beings scatter to Peru?
There you go. You’re on the right track.
Check
Check (like China and the Incans)
Check
Ehh, not necessarily. The people of each region would largely be the same. Their cultures would have been largely impacted by the arrival of these beings, but not genetically altered in any significant way.
Check - major shifts in this case being the birth of multiple civilizations
Sumer - 5500BC
Then Babel - 3900 BC (long-living beings scattered)
Egypt - 3100 BC (to the east)
Indus Valley - 3000 BC (to the west)
China - 1800 BC (further east) > Olmec - 1200 (way further east)
Greece - 800 BC (to the north)
Rome - 750 BC (to the north)
It’s not specific, because your view of what “the region” encompasses has changed with every post you’ve made, being originally Persia, Greece, Southern Europe and North Africa, then expanding to include Scotland, Scandinavia and South America, then contracting again but including India, then adding China and including South America and Northern Europe again, then retreating once more to the area around Mesopotamia.
What is the region they spread through?
What were these beings?
What did they look like?
Where did they come from?
How long did they live for?
Why did they die out?
In what way were they “god-like”?
How did they interact with humans?
How many of them were there?
What did they do, and why?
What tools and artefacts did they use?
How did they live?
What language(s) did they speak?
Why did they scatter?
Three dates and one location is not specific.
I have to be more careful how I word things. When I was speaking of that particular region I’m speaking about the earlier phases of this. Eventually human cultures around the world were altered significantly.
There are a lot of facets to this and learning how best to convey it all clearly has been a work in progress.
That’s all in just that one post. There are 75 posts in this thread. Many of your questions have already been answered above.
You saying “Check” isn’t enough, especially since your dates are not only wrong but ridiculously inconsistent - why would it take four times as long to reach Greece than to reach Egypt, when they’re about the same distance? Why did they reach Peru before Italy?
Let’s first address your statement that my dates are wrong. Please explain. What’s wrong?
First things first: you need a coherent idea to put into words.