The Flood "Removed" not "Killed" Everyone?

(Jeremy Christian) #61

Humans have been migrating for hundreds of thousands of years. And Gobekli Tepe was not a populated lived in/at place.

Humans didn’t start forming cities and governments and organized cultures until about 6000 years ago. Before that they migrated around and made the same unchanged stone tools over and over again.

If it weren’t for the events of Genesis the Earth would still be populated by indigenous-like cultures.


Oh did God have to wait until humans formed cities and governments to communicate to humans? Did the Fall happen in a city in the Middle East about 6000 years old?

(Jeremy Christian) #63

The creation of Adam and Eve and the introduction of free will caused civilization.


Got news for you, humans in hunter gather society prior to agriculture were far healthier and more egalitarian than the agricultural societies to follow. Think about it, very difficult to have slavery, and inequality in a hunter gatherer society.


when and where did suppose it historical event took place?


So humans prior to Adam and Eve didn’t have free will?

(SpareHeadOne) #67

Free will is an illusion.
The bible says that a man makes plans but it is God who directs his steps.
On topic - Apparently God wanted to send the antideluvians to Sheol so Jesus could speak to them when he died. 2 Peter says they perished which sounds to me like they drowned

(Jeremy Christian) #68

Not news. Yes, before free will humans were egalitarian. Part of what made the first cities “cities” was class stratification. Before free will all humans were equal. Ruling classes and militaries and slavery came as a result of free will. As did writing and many, many other things that form the foundation of modern civilization.

About 5500 BC in Mesopotamia.

That’s the claim.

(SpareHeadOne) #69

Could you point me to the parts in the bible that indicate that there were preAdamites? Cheers

(John Harshman) #70

Didn’t it also happen around the same time in China and Egypt? And considerably later in America? I’m guessing there were several Adams created at different times.

(Jeremy Christian) #71

Sure. The humans created at the end of Genesis 1 and the creation of Adam and Eve in Genesis 2 have always been assumed to be two versions of the same event. They’re not. They don’t match up.

Then, in Genesis 4 Cain voices his concern about being harmed by others he’ll encounter when he was banished from the garden. He later married, raised a family, and built a city.

Then in Genesis 6, right at the start, its talking about 2 groups. The ‘sons of God’ and the ‘daughters of humans’. In Genesis 5 it says Adam and his descendants all lived for centuries. But in Genesis 6 it says one of these two groups only lives to 120 years.

(Jeremy Christian) #72

Egypt, yes. First there was Sumer. Then after the dispersion of the sons of Noah at Babel, it began in Egypt to the west, the Indus Valley to the west, rose again in Sumer, this time the Uruk period, and eventually throughout Europe and Asia.

(John Harshman) #73

Yeah, that timetable doesn’t fit, and it’s hard to believe that there was any such diffusion. There was no contact between the civilizations of the old and new worlds, and China arose at the same time as Sumer, with no prior contact.

(Jeremy Christian) #74

It fits perfectly well. And as for the diffusion, no belief is required. There’s facts to support that …

"The 5.9-kiloyear event was one of the most intense aridification events during the Holocene. It occurred around 3900 BC (5900 years Before Present), ending the Neolithic Subpluvial.

It is associated with the last round of the Sahara pump theory, and probably initiated the most recent desiccation of the Sahara, as well as a five century period of colder climate in more northerly latitudes. It triggered human migration to the Nile, which eventually led to the emergence of the first complex, highly organized, state-level societies in the 4th millennium BC." - 5.9 kiloyear event - EverybodyWiki Bios & Wiki

Chinese civilization begins with the Xia dynasty (2700-1600BC) - History of China - Wikipedia

2500 years later, roughly 2000 years after the beginning of Sumer.

(Jeremy Christian) #75

I cringe anytime someone refers to 2 Peter or Jude. Have you ever read the book of Enoch? It reads like contemporary New Testament fan fiction. And the fact that 2 Peter and Jude quote from it brings both of those books into question.

(SpareHeadOne) #76

Yeah Ive read it.
So what is your position on the bible?


And the people of the Americas were blissfully going about their business for 20,000 years?

And the people of Australia were doing the same for about 60,000 years?

And what about the other human species of the past few million years?

(John Harshman) #78

Best look up the Yellow River and Yangtze civilizations.

From where? You’re claiming from Sumer? No, that isn’t it.

(George) #79


That is Your claim, you mean.

(Jeremy Christian) #80

Man made. Useful and important writings, but not completely perfect.