The Flood "Removed" not "Killed" Everyone?


(Jeremy Christian) #81

Humans did exactly as they were commanded in Gen 1. “Be fruitful and multiply”, “fill and subdue the Earth”.


(Jeremy Christian) #82

“Yellow River civilization came into being between the year 4,000 BC and 2,000 BC, which covered over 2,000 years long.” - Yellow River Valley Civilization Timeline by Tameia Morrison on Prezi

1500 years after the beginning of Sumer.

“Archaeologists have never been able to conclusively answer the question of who the original Egyptians and Sumerians were. But evidence clearly suggests that the Egyptians who “civilized” the Nile region were immigrants from the desert areas. As Bran Griffith points out, in North Africa recorded history begins against the background of mass migrations out of a growing desert. He notes that “pre-dynastic Egyptians were a jumbled assortment of tribes, many of them recent arrivals from the deserts.”” - Steve Taylor, The Fall


(Timothy Horton) #83

JIAHU (7000-5700 B.C.): CHINA’S EARLIEST CULTURE AND HOME OF ITS OLDEST SETTLEMENTS

Jiahu is a rich but little known archeological site located near the village of Jiahu near the Yellow River in Henan Province in central China. About equidistant between Xian and Nanjing, the site was occupied from 9,000 to 7,700 years ago and then from 2,000 year ago to the present. In addition to yielding the world’s oldest wine and some of the oldest rice and earliest playable musical instruments, it may have also yielded the earliest examples of Chinese writing

Oops. :slightly_smiling_face:


(Jeremy Christian) #84

There’s a difference between settlements or human occupations and the birth of civilization. Many of these places, including Sumer, Egypt, the Indus Valley, the Yellow River Valley, were “occupied” or contained human settlements long before when civilization began.


(Timothy Horton) #85

LOL! So your argument rests solely on your personal opinion of the definition of “civilization”. That’s about as weak as it gets.

Jiahu was a permanent settlement with a well established culture and is considered by anthropologists to be one of the world’s oldest civilizations. Try again.

7 Oldest Civilizations in the World


(Jeremy Christian) #86

It’s important to recognize the distinction. Human settlements, especially along rivers, predated the civilizations that formed there by thousands of years. It can confuse things, like in this case with the confusion here.


(Timothy Horton) #87

There’s no confusion. When you claim Sumer is the world’s oldest civilization you’re just wrong. Sumer doesn’t even make it into the oldest top 10. It’s the oldest civilization in Mesopotamia but Mesopotamia isn’t the whole world.


(Jeremy Christian) #88

It’s number 5 in the list you linked above. And that’s when you include cultures like the Aborigines of Australia as a “civilization”.


(Timothy Horton) #89

Let’s try a real easy question for you. Consider the three civilizations below:

Mesopotamians (c. 6,500 BCE – 539 BCE)

Jiahu (c. 7,000 BCE – 5,700 BCE)

Çatalhöyük (c. 7,500 BCE – 5,700 BCE)

Which one is the oldest? :slightly_smiling_face:


(Jeremy Christian) #90

It’s a trick question. There’s only one civilization on the list.


(Timothy Horton) #91

According to anthropologists and historians there are three. Try again. Which of the three listed civilizations is the oldest?

Mesopotamians (c. 6,500 BCE – 539 BCE)

Jiahu (c. 7,000 BCE – 5,700 BCE)

Çatalhöyük (c. 7,500 BCE – 5,700 BCE)

Do you need some math help?


(Jeremy Christian) #92

And who are these anthropologists and historians who have made such a questionable declaration?


(SpareHeadOne) #93

Who’s king lists do you trust more? Hebrew, Egypt, Akkadian etc


(Jeremy Christian) #94

It’s not really a matter of trust. I’ve lined up the timeline built from the Hebrew Patriarch’s list to historical events of the region, so if I’m pressed to answer, that would be it.


(John Harshman) #95

If you check Wikipedia you will find more recent discoveries pushing this back to over 9000 BC, and Yangtze civilization to over 6000 BC.

Yes, desert areas of Africa, not the fertile crescent.


(Jeremy Christian) #96

It’s important to understand exactly what a “civilization” is.

Civilization - the process by which a society or place reaches an advanced stage of social and cultural development and organization.

These cultures you’re speaking of were egalitarian. One of the characteristics that makes a “civilization” is class stratification. Organization with a ruling class and a working class. In these cultures you’re referencing all were equal. It’s more like a long-term camp site than a civilization with a governing structure.

All cultures that were situated along river banks who were flushed out by the transformation to desert conditions. This includes both Africa and the fertile crescent.


(Timothy Horton) #97

LOL! I love the way Creationists cherry-pick their definitions as an excuse to support their Biblical fantasies while ignoring established complex cultures thousands of years older than the “first” ones they claim. :slightly_smiling_face:


(Jeremy Christian) #98

I love the way Unspecified Interlocutors, when they can no longer make a coherent argument, instead begin accusing the other of dishonest tactics to advance some imagined agenda. :slightly_smiling_face:


(Neil Rickert) #99

That’s conservative politics in a nutshell.


(Timothy Horton) #100

I’m sure Creationists have good reasons for ignoring several thousand years’ worth of archaeological and anthropological evidence which directly refutes their Biblical fantasies. They just can’t provide those reasons here though. :slightly_smiling_face: