The Inevitability of Improbability

I reduced the number of tickets from 100 million to 52. I have a single winner. The odds of winning are much greater, but I honestly don’t see any in principle difference.

Will there always be a single drawing in your lottery and will that drawing always have a winner and must every ticket have a different person associated with it? IOW, no person can have more than one ticket?

That has been my assumption, because allowing one person to buy up all the tickets to ensure that they win changes the probability that they will win significantly.

Right, you changed the example. Please don’t. Discuss the example as given.

2 Likes

It is fairly remarkable to witness the unwillingness or inability to recognize a trivially obvious fact.

1 Like

the probability of an event is 1 if you can repeat the event multiple times and it happened the same event or won the same people over and over again, let’s say if you repeat the 100 million times and get the same people . the probability of an event is 1 if there is either only one possibility to happen, or there is a physical necessity, or external source caused to happen among possibilities always the same event

Almost like someone was obfuscating on purpose to derail the thread. :slightly_smiling_face:

1 Like

This is absolute nonsense as there cannot be anything Infinite in the real physical universe.

The physics of infinity

1 Like

When biologists talk of “nearly infinite” they don’t mean a real infinity. He just means a very large, a combinatorially large, number. He means practically speaking infinite, not theoretically actually infinite.

You are right that a real infinity may not actually be a reality in the physical universe. That is not what @T_aquaticus means. Even if it was what he meant, he isn’t taking about something contained in the real physical universe but the range of possibilities that include possibilities unrealized in our physical universe.

2 Likes

Biology doesn’t have to repeat mutational events, so what you are describing is irrelevant.

That’s why I said nearly infinite.

4 Likes

you cannot ascribe a probability of 1 to a random mutation just because it happened. if probability of a mutation is 1 then is not random mutation, it is either had a physical necessity to happen or an external source caused to happen

You misunderstand. A probability of 1.0 = certainty. An event which has already happened is certain therefore it is assigned a probability of 1.0 by definition.

1 Like

Yes, you can. If a mutation happens then the probability of it happening is 1 in 1, because it happened. That’s how probability works.

We can measure mutations as they happen in both the wild and in the lab. There are plenty of well supported and well understood natural mechanisms that produce these mutations. Are you doubting the science behind this?

3 Likes

If the point of the OP is that probability can often be misunderstood and misapplied and does not always boil down to “the obvious” I absolutely agree. Mocking people for attempting to clarify matters is not helpful.

Here’s how one article puts it:

**Q: What is the probability of an outcome after it’s already happened?**

Physicist : There are a lot of subtleties to this. Reading the question, your gut reaction should be “Duh, it’s 100%! Wait, is this really a question?”.

And yet, there are many times in which you may find yourself estimating probabilities on things that have already happened. If you flip a coin and cover it or go looking for a lost dog, the “true” probability is always 100%: the coin is definitely either heads or tails, and Fluffins (the wonder dog) has a 100% chance of being exactly where it is.

Yes, it's obvious that the coin is definitely either heads or tails. Inevitable even.

Here’s the article. Be sure to read the comments, which directly address the lottery question. It’s really is a different example though, because he uses a figure of 1 million not 100 million, so I’ll understand if some folks don’t think it’s relevant.

https://www.askamathematician.com/2012/10/q-what-is-the-probability-of-an-outcome-after-its-already-happened/

The point Ive been trying to make about the OP is that it is possible that it is relying on an equivocation. If the terms are applied to the same event then it is an equivocation, because the events are not the same.

If the point of the OP is that looking at an event after it has happened and declaring that it was improbable is a mistake because it has already happened and thus the probability is 1, therefore it was not improbable at all but inevitable, well, it depends on how you look at it.

But in no case is the same event both improbable and inevitable. The two are mutually incompatible. That should be obvious.

I did enjoy this article:

http://blog.russnelson.com/life/probability-of-past-events.html

Evolutionists should not accept the idea that probability analysis can have any relationship to something that has already happened.

@Mung the point is that improbable events inevitably happen by natural processes, so showing that an event is improbable does not demonstrate the event did not arise by natural processes.

3 Likes

Where does an outcome that has already occurred and that therefore has a probability of 1 fit into this?

On that I completely agree! Thanks for putting it that way.

in case of biology, proteins are also specifed with respect to a specific function. Improbable events might arize by natural processes, but Improbable and specified events cannot arise by natural processes given probabilistic resources of the universe

That will depend on how it fits into the specific mathematical model being used.

Not even if God is guiding those natural processes?