It has been litigated. Many times. You guys always lose.
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Honestly @Guy_Coe, seems to be an abuse of authority. I would complain too, if I was a parent in that district. I would not lobby for the teachers dismissal, but I would insist on avoiding potentially coercive actions by teachers.
The power of teachers over students is real. It can be abused, and we should all resist its abuse.
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As a though experiment, what do you suppose the Christian parents in the area would have said if the coach was preaching Satanism and handing out shirts with 666 and pentagrams on them? Do you think they’d be rallying to protect his “freedom of religion” rights?
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@patrick my major concern here remains how the FRFF omits it’s feelings on the dissmisal. It is great that you qualify that a dismissal was not required, but they did not (did they?). Keeping public spaces fair is important, and needs broad support. I believe it would be better for everyone if FRFF prominently clarified in cases like this that dissmisal was not their goal, and often these are innocent mistakes that can be quickly rectified. This is important because it diffuses and undermines the narrative of Christian persecution (which is surely real in other parts of the world), and helps districts understand how to manage these cases humanely.
Can you point us to articles where FFRF clarifies this? Can you reach out to them with this concern please?
FFRF’s work is mostly on the legal side requiring legalistic letters and court filings. While FFRF does give opinions in press releases it usually doesn’t get into the personal personnel matters which this case was. FRFF wrote a letter. A return letter was received. The matter for now done. On to the other 999 cases that come up every year all over the country.
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@Patrick can correct me if I am wrong, but as I understand it, it is not a major part of FFRF’s mandate to ensure that those who violate human rights are granted continuing employment.
For whatever reason, in this particular situation resolving the Constitutional issue involved a high school basketball coach resigning. I don’t see why FFRF should have to involve itself in a personnel decisions at that level, so long as the religious freedom issue is resolved. People are always complaining they are a bunch of busybodies as it is.
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India has a huge problem with education. I’ve reviewed graduate-school applications in both countries. The US has far better education, but India has far more students and therefore far more smart students that simply overcome poor education.
That’s a great mechanism for maintaining inequality. Do you view that as a good thing?
It just occurred to me now… this is certainly what millions of Americans depend upon … that private religiously-oriented schools teach their children… or help parents teach their children in “home-schooling” associations.
So … you are way ahead of the curve… America is following your prescription. And by doing so … it would be very handy if the ID folks STOPPED pushing on the public school battle field!
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Pls refer to the context. I was referring to controversies regarding religion in public schools, mainly because most people depend on private schools (edit: and because India has a different approach to secularism). Most people who study in public schools do so because they have no other choice.
I wasn’t talking about the quality of graduate level education vis a vis America.
I think both are required. Private players ensure there is freedom of choice, while government schools ensure that education is available to all people.
So cheap and affordable private education is as important as public schools in my opinion.
In India, a good portion of private education is provided by Christian institutions and other minority communities and they are attended by people of all faiths.
I see that as a remarkable thing.
Please read more carefully. I wasn’t either. I was talking about the quality of education of those APPLYING to graduate school in the two countries.
I don’t. Public education was one of the major strengths of the US. As it is declining, so is the position of the US in the world.
You’re not telling me anything I don’t already know.
I see the Indian education system as a whole as a dismal thing. The fact that a very select few are able to get a decent education does not redeem it.
That has nothing to do with what I was discussing. That’s why I pointed out you were taking me out of context and reacting to something that was never claimed.
That’s your opinion.
Indian conditions are different.
Well, that’s your opinion. How is it relevant to the topic at hand?
India has its challenges in many fields. That’s true.
Surely it was the coach that buggered it up, by pushing his religion inappropriately?
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Here is today’s accomplishment. @Jay313 might think it is petty stuff but we see it as important and meaningful.
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You keep saying that and I object to it. Human rights violations are big things. Slavery, trafficking, those kinds of things. It’s silly to classify a coach having a Bible study with his players as such, especially repeatedly. I’m not saying that he was right. I know that he was not. I coached for a decade. I’ve led student bible studies. But not in the same settings. I’ve volunteered in environments where it would have been easy and natural to interject my faith, but I chose not to because I was educated about the situation and knew that it was not proper. One needs only to learn and understand.
@Patrick What should have happened is that he should have simply been alerted by the FFRF and educated as to the policy and asked to stop. That’s it. It would have been automatic. Absent a threat of lawsuit or filing of papers, no one needs to worry about money being wasted over litigation.
Furthermore, and no one seems to care about this at all, but this entire experience could be needlessly humiliating for this poor man. Even just reading the posts here. It was insinuated multiple times by people who had zero knowledge of the situation that there was some sort of impropriety other than what was listed in the article. A gentle push may have allowed him to realize he could keep his position as a coach, and simply offer a bible study in another venue. Potentially, the humiliation of possibly being sued may have made him feel that it simply wasn’t worth the effort.
This is truly a net loss. You may be pleased as punch about it, but it’s a big shame.
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In this case, the School Superindent was right there are the time of the infraction. He told the coach not to do it and the coach went ahead anyway. The FFRF letter came afterwards and it WAS an alert letter. Obviously the coach was going to continue his unconstitutional actions whatever the School Superintendent said or did. The coach is now playing the Christian persecution card with FOX News.
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If that is the case, then I retract my concern about how the process went down. I’m glad that it went down that way and I would say that he’s made the wrong choice.
EDIT: And, @patrick I thank you publicly for also retracting some key words and phrases through your edits. You are a gentleman.
That said, there’s no need to interject certain words and phrases that are designed to elicit emotional responses. Those words, like “human rights violations” are simply inflammatory and unnecessary. They further the divide and the misunderstanding.
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There wasn’t going to be any lawsuit as the School Superindent saw the incident and tried to stop it. The coach was insubordinate. Since the teacher’s union is weak in New Mexico, he probably understood that he most likely would have been fired. Resigning was his way of the humiliation of being fired.
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There’s so many assumptions in what you’ve said above. I don’t see why this kind of speculation is necessary. So, are you saying that FFRF’s involvement was unnecessary? It was a foregone conclusion that this activity was going to be stopped? Why send the letter then?
Well he did go to FOX News and he was insubordinate to the School Superindent who clearly knew the constitutionality of wearing Bible Verse shirts at the State Championship Game.
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