So are you accusing Joshua of planting a trap in this blog site?
We say God can guide evolution… but because he affirms mainstream science, you think he’s secretly going to say: “Ahha… it was a trick… I’ve been denying God’s role in nature all along because I affirm mainstream science!”
This is why it’s so hard to talk to you about anything… So you are 12, aren’t ya…
That’s because Adam was living in a specially-planted garden reserve—not in the wilderness which typified the rest of creation. How many cultivated gardens include carnivorous beasts in them? None that I know of.
That’s because you don’t allow yourself to be schooled outside of your favorite man-made traditions. Even when we show you scriptures which disagree with your positions, you simply reject them.
No. Not even close. You stick with your traditions and then insist on reading them into the Biblical texts.
Greg, I’ve asked you this before: If there was no death before the fall, why was there a need for the fruit of the Tree of Life? Why would God provide an “antidote” for a “poison” which does not yet exist?
I honestly dont know George. I am very curious about what is going on here. Im actually most curious about what you represent here. You paint a picture of borderline worship of evolutionism. The confusing nature of what appears a grand agenda in you makes me even stronger in my belief in God our Creator not God our distant helper in semi naturalistic evolutionary causes.
Again, the insults like this make me MORE trusting in a young earth creationist model. The men i know in my church who subscribe to a Biblical worldview are mature, Christ centered and serious believers. When i think about the utter maturity and sincerity of these men who subscribe to a common view as i do on our beginnings and contrast this to you that goes around calling folks who are intent to trust Gods word as true even as this is dissimilar to “mainstream science” as “12 year olds” then i think you get my drift…it is a no brainer- i trust those who trust Gods word instead of those who dont and go around name calling. “May God be true and every man is a liar” When God says He created us on a single day where there was “morning and evening” then it is true, end of story, pack our bags, go home and trust what God says.
Adam and Eve were commanded to reproduce and “fill the earth” I assume that this is different than “fill the garden”
You dont need to answer that one sir. Your predisposition to interpret Scripture as a sort of borrowing of cultural religions and not as a free standing revelation from God makes it impossible to have any rational conversation with you about any ideas in the pages of Scripture. Good bye.
You ducking the question makes me all the more confident in my interpretation of God’s role in Evolution!
You should write some new brands of praise music to take to your universalist meeting house. I will in the meantime just try to do my little best to keep them out of the church.
And why is the tree of life exist in the new earth when people there have been given eternal life by the works of Jesus? The existence of the tree of life being an atidote for not dying alone is like telling me that the existence of a perfect God who is holy and good and righteous must be the antidote for evil that MUST exist. But we know that Gods existence alone does not account for the existence of evil. Evil is attitudes, words and actions that are chosen by another who has volition to choose to do these things contrary to the nature of that which is perfect. So your ideas make no sense.
So i do not completely understand what the essence of the tree if life is…i do know that if the fruit fr the tree is eaten after the fall that Adam and Eve would gain eternal life so the sense of this being a temporary solution to physical mortality does not seem at all logical.
By the way on the problem of evil, i read this article on sean mcdowells website: https://seanmcdowell.org/blog/avengers-endgame-and-the-problem-of-evil
I have always hated it when church leaders use plots in movies to pull theological principles out of them. Especially in the case of this avengers series. My son is all into the series and could not wait to see “endgame” i have not seen it yet and may not waste money on a ticket. But i did watch the infinity war w him yesterday for the second time. The first time noticed a few suspicious items that seemed to tarnish the judeo christian worldview. The second time i am convinced the writer knew Christian theology and was intent to first taint and disguise the true nature of the God of scripture to be more like a Thanos in the movie but not the God of Scripture, then make a mockery of Him in attempt to dismantle even Christianity with the nature captured by thanos through the heros consisting of sorcerers, magicians, aliens, psychics, regular humans, and smart humans mockingly “cursed w knowledge” an obvious slam against the disobedience of partaking of the fruit from the tree of knowledge of evil (yes, that was twisted too similar to how the serpent twisted it)
So here sean mcdowell has opportunity for incredulous teaching moments thru the smoke and mirrors disguising a seeming plot to destroy the Christian worldview and instead chooses to allow the plot to teach general things about the problem of evil instread. Ugh! If you know him, pass this on.
You could fund your education in theology by delivering pizza and wings to the Sunday Socials of my new church.
Sincerity and subscribing to a common view are not measures of maturity.
Nor are my insults. I’m sorry. You are my brother.
Sure, what is your new churches name and denomination? I, again attend an evangelical free denomination when at home and a wonderful baptist church when at our lake cabin in TN. Our pastor preached one of the most solid, inspiring Bible based, God honoring messages yesterday in his intro to the sermon series on the book of Acts yesterday. I wanted to scream w excitement about how on track his message was in glory to our only King! I would rather deliver pizza and attend such a place of worship than reap millions and attend a humanistic based meeting house that plays movie clips and tells stories.
I can’t decide whether to name it “Church of Greg” … or
“The Holiest Son, Greg”.
Which do you prefer?
It is an obvious symbol of true life restored and a resumption of the intimacy which Adam and Eve had with God in the Edenic garden. Nothing surprising about that. It speaks of Christ bringing back the original fellowship which had existed between humans and their Creator before sin marred that relationship. It underscores the significance of the New Heaven and New Earth.
Greg, you will find this described in virtually any Bible commentary.
And i agree w them. So why is this tree a symbol of true life restored in the garden where there is sinless physical human beings living on a physical earth but before the fall the tree of life is a tree that is just used to keep mortal bodies alive? I just dont like this interpretation. If Adam and Eve were told to fill the earth and their kin were a far travel from the tree in order to replentish their mortality w life or the tree used for saving them from the presence of carnivorous animals…
I just dont like how the idea of an old earth and evolutionism are becomming the basis for interpreting scripture.
Not me in that description. I am in agreement w Pauls confession as my own too in Ro 7:
"For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin. 15 For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. 16 Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good. 17 So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.
21 So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. 22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, 23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord!"
I care about what God has chosen to reveal in his creation. Truth is truth. I choose to accept that which God has clearly revealed about his creation.
Do you also reject what God has revealed about photosynthesis and relativity?
This may be overused in creationist lingo but the principle is profound nonetheless: when Jesus created what was fermented wine made of grapes from water, the “clearly revealed” naturalistic interpretation that you suggest is accepted as being on the same level as revelation is that someone plucked grapes off the vine, crushed them, put them into wineskins and let them age. Theism in an infinitely beautiful supernatural God and sciencism are on eternally different plains
How is that in any way relevant to the question I posed to you?
I reject both scientism and sciencism. So I think you have me confused with someone else.
It seems like “the plain reading” to me. If the way back to the tree of life was guarded by an angel with a flaming sword, it would sure seem to pretty definitely imply that the fruit of the tree was required for their longevity. You seem to want it ‘literal’ when you want want it to be ‘literal’ and to be metaphorical when you just don’t like the ‘literal’ implications.
You said that you trust the nature of all of creation (as sort of a natural revelation)including the nature of the past events that must be viewed thru the eyes of science. My argument is that if science had a chance to observe that wine created by Jesus instantly(which if you remember was commented by the wedding guests as the finest of wines saved for last) which was created in the past, they would assume a grape seed planted, grape vine cared for, grape vine matured (over yrs) grapes harvested, grapes crushed, grape juice placed in wineskins and grape juice aged.
So in this example, we see that natural revelation thru the eyes of science was completely inept to discover the history of the wine Jesus created from water in a split second.
I am a theist. I did not witness Jesus making the wine either. But when i am told a history by men taking a role as spokesmen for God about the finest of all wines saved saved for last (where typically the best wines were served first at a wedding banquet) this anchors my BELIEF or theism that this actually occurred. You say you dont buy the idea of theism or sciencism. But even that is a belief system! A confusing one in light of the basis of the Christian faith that declares “Faith comes from hearing and hearing from the Word of God”
I would like to invite you to my church on Sundays. It is also non-denominational and evangelical free.
