A Pentecostal? Really? Wow. That’s hard to imagine. Good for him. He and Craig Keener should hang out sometime. Pentecostalism needs more academics.
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He would actually be great to talk with, because he has a PHD in theology as well as in evolutionary biology. Yes, he’s really believes in Daily Miracles and I think he did say he was a Pentecostal. So, I don’t think that he has anything against special miracles.
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Invite him here. We can do an office hours with him.
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@Mark and @randy are will you willing to be engaged readers for my book? I need some no-Adam Christians with strong sympathies to BioLogos and Lamoureux, and do not currently have anyone. I’m revising a chapter today that could use your input.
I guess I am now a @Alice_Linsley first couple of the Horite priestly group Adam and Eve. No reason that they couldn’t have been real people and Genesis being just a fictitious story about them. But it really doesn’t matter to me as an atheist to have Genghis Khan, Charlemagne, and the first couple of the Horite priestly group in my genealogy as my genome shows little influence from them. Also, I disavow responsibility of any atrocities committed by anyone in my genealogical whether that includes slavery and barbarism and eating fruit from the tree of knowledge.
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Thanks for the invitation! I would be interested as long as you don’t need feedback immediately? When do you need something by?
On the other hand, Partrick, presumably if we could find some genes you have in common with Osama bin Laden, we should send in the troops?
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Interestingly, Trump said in his campaign that they should take out the families of terrorists. This is an interesting commentary on whether guilt is there by association–and why Westerners, who didn’t like what Trump said, don’t feel comfortable with guilt by association with Adam :). Maybe you and Dr Swamidass can clarify things for them to feel more comfortable with that. It’s difficult.
@Mark, I just finished the Nancy Pearcy book review by William Lane Craig. It was good; thanks.
I think I’m reaching into, as Chaim Potok in “The Chosen” would call it, “pilpul” (conjecture), but I think that a continuum, with God as the creator, still has option to be brought to Him–is there a dog heaven? --I don’t know!
Regarding those who are mentally less than optimal (I am one of them, I’m sure, at least in comparison to some)–I don’t think that intelligence alone is a sign of fitness; the sign of wounding (dementia, brain trauma, autism, just as much as a broken leg) are demonstrations of what things should be. Moral code demands, I think, that we have God as the judge and try to heal all things that are hurting. Euthanasia would be a terrifying slide into relativism, though I understand more and more why people struggle with that. In med school I helped David Stevens, the head of Christian Medical and Dental Association, lecture at our school against physician assisted suicide. I still believe that we should avoid that, though I am in favor of aggressive opioids at end of life if needed, even though they can hasten death, for comfort’s sake (this is for pain relief, not for the hastening of death).
Regarding the saving of some and not others–I tend towards George Macdonald’s universalism–not that there is no punishment, but that punishment is correction, not vindication. So, even Hitler could be brought to repentance (and who knows, given background and circumstances, I could be as bad as Hitler) after years of Hell–which would then be purgatory. There is a hornet’s nest of questions there, but Randal Rauser has discussed this (though he tends to be an annihilationist, I think). @jongarvey http://experimentaltheology.blogspot.com/2010/06/george-macdonald-justice-hell-and.html
Regarding Denis Lamoureux, I’m trying to connect with him for both Biologos and Dr Swamidass --my impression thus far is that he prefers the format of setting up a video discourse where people can contact him --he has some sort of set up that we can log on. He’s done that with his Science and Faith course. If it works out ok, he would maybe be available at a certain time for us to log on and ask questions. He said he’s been very busy with the classes he’s teaching right now, but we are trading emails and calls. I’ll let you know if things work out.
All of the above conjectures are nondogmatic :).
Thanks.
I most certainly do have many genes in common with OBL as I most certainly do have many genes in common with every person that ever lived. So what’s your point?
I’m not claiming guilt by association. That is not what original sin is.
Original sin is guilt by birth. I reject original sin in its entirety. It is another Christian Theological Myth constructed to dehumanize human beings. No person has original sin nor a soul. All made up fiction by Christian theologians to keep power and sow fear in the masses of ignorant people.
John Dewey’s dream come true.
Great example of what I was talking about: dogmatic pronouncements without any visible logic. There are other understandings that make more sense of it.
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When did propaganda have to make sense?
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When exactly did he coin this term?
Yes you’ve made the claim that the term was coined earlier and you may be right. Can you provide that quote here for others?
I should have said that Denis L. took up the term in more recent years.
Sure.
- John Miley, “Systematic Theology” (1896).
Further, if this doctrine of an evolutionary creation be true of matter, it must be equally true of mind, whether human or angelic. Mind is thus reduced to a merely phenomenal mode of existence, without any reality of being in itself.
- Theodore Munger, “The Appeal to Life” (1887).
It is only under a theory of evolutionary creation that we can truly wonder and adore God. Otherwise, how shall we think, how feel, before the Power that created those long orders of beings that simply ravened and devoured one another?
- Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, “Let Me Explain” (1927).
Evolutionary Creation and the Expectation of a Revelation I. EVOLUTIONARY CREATION It is from this centre of irreversibility, once discovered, that the light breaks backwards, illuminating the hidden mechanism of the phenomenon.
- Edwin Tenney Brewsterm “Creation: A History of Non-evolutionary Theories” (1927)
… the ideas of the ancient giants in the earth, if, in so far as we are able, we empty our minds of all sophisticated and precise distinctions, and think of all origins as by way of ill-defined “creative evolution” or evolutionary creation.
- Alice A. Bailey and Djwhal Khul, “Discipleship in the New Age” (1955).
Progressive evolutionary creation. Formula 5 . . . Transition from the individual consciousness to the universal. Evolutionary processes from divine Purpose into plan and then into manifestation. The nature of individual renunciation.
- Donald Gray, "The One and the Many: Teilhard de Chardin’s Vision of Unity " (1969).
In place of Bergson’s formula evolution creatrice Teilhard later substituted his own formula creation evolutive (evolutionary creation),
- T. Peter Snell, “ThirdWay” (1980).
I believe that a repetition of the old arguments about evolutionary creation versus special creation is likely to harm the cause of Christ at a time when Christians have an unprecedented opportunity of presenting Christ to an age sceptical, at last…
- Madeleine Barthélemy Madaule “Lamarck, the Mythical Precursor” (1982).
See also Evolutionary creation arguments for, 26, 27, 37-39, 78, 79 and transformism, 49, 80, 107, 115, 148
- Jeffrey Cohen, “Moments of Insight: Biblical and Contemporary Jewish Themes” (1989).
Similarly, must we understand the pedagogic purpose behind the representation of creation in six days. God does not work in time. The initial stages of evolutionary creation similarly preceded a time system,
I didn’t bother looking for anything after 1990, the number of instances ramps up from the 1980s onwards.
I think it’s fair to say he was responsible for popularizing it in North American evangelical circles.
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I also found quite a few hits for “evolutionary creationism” back to the late nineteenth century.
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