Misrayim is the Hebrew word for Egypt, and is used hundreds of times in the Old Testament, consistent with other geographical references, along with references to pharaoh as a title, at times referring to specific pharaoh’s in regard to archeologically correlated events. There isn’t the slightest mystery.
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Here’s a verse that intrigues me.
Exodus 5:7 You are no longer to supply the people with straw for making bricks; let them go and gather their own straw.
I think this is due to attention to detail. Consider how stories are passed down and how much detail is included. Why is this so?
Why are some stories passed down in such a vague manner, while others are so detailed?
The meaning of the story is quite clear in context:
6 That same day Pharaoh gave this order to the slave drivers and overseers in charge of the people: 7 “You are no longer to supply the people with straw for making bricks; let them go and gather their own straw. 8 But require them to make the same number of bricks as before; don’t reduce the quota. They are lazy; that is why they are crying out, ‘Let us go and sacrifice to our God.’ 9 Make the work harder for the people so that they keep working and pay no attention to lies.”
The story is there to demonstrate the senseless cruelty of Pharaoh, the villain of the Exodus narrative. It is a fairly superficial “detail”, as I would suspect such unfired mud/straw (or perhaps mud/clay/straw) bricks would be widely used throughout the Near East – so would be familiar to the authors of the Exodus narrative.
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The Hebrews knew about baked bricks from the time of Babel. As far as I know, baked bricks are not used in Egypt. They were used at lower levels in Sumerian Ziggurats. No doubt the thrust of the Bible is on tyranny. But it is Word of God hence cannot ignore the straw. In any event, historicity will only strengthen the theology.
The evidence you say is good. Indus is better. Let us compare. 1] Egypt was known as KMT before 13c BCE. No place named Misr ever. Indus had the city named Mathura in literature from 2000 BCE. 2] Pharaoh title could be redacted. In any case it is weak circumstantial evidence. 3] Multiple geographical problems. 3a] Egypt no parting of the sea. Indus: Obstruction of Indus River by mud volcano. 3b] Egypt No volcano at Sinai. Indus Taftan. 3c] No need to go to Aqaba, the third Yam Suf. The third Yam suf would be Shatt al-Arab. 4] No character parallel to Moses in Egyptian literature. Krishna is parallel. 4a] Kills Kamsa (~Mistrite) and flees. 4b] Returns. 4c] Leaves for unknown country ~ Exodus. 4d] Brothers kill each other ~ Killng at Sinai. Let us solve the problems with an Egyptian Exodus.
Babel is a myth.
The Exodus was likewise a myth. So any parallels are likely mere coincidence.
Also:
Other Egyptian figures which have been postulated as candidates for a historical Moses-like figure include the princes Ahmose-ankh and Ramose, who were sons of pharaoh Ahmose I, or a figure associated with the family of pharaoh Thutmose III.[92][93] Israel Knohl has proposed to identify Moses with Irsu, a Shasu who, according to Papyrus Harris I and the Elephantine Stele, took power in Egypt with the support of “Asiatics” (people from the Levant) after the death of Queen Twosret; after coming to power, Irsu and his supporters disrupted Egyptian rituals, “treating the gods like the people” and halting offerings to the Egyptian deities. They were eventually defeated and expelled by the new Pharaoh Setnakhte and, while fleeing, they abandoned large quantities of gold and silver they had stolen from the temples.[94] [Wikipedia]
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I’m out for now. I can see no value arguing over what can be regarded as a simple fact. If for whatever personal reason you are so invested in Krishna showing up in the Bible, I expect you are imperious to evidence anyways. Whatever the historicity of Moses, he was not Krishna.
@Moderators, this is a diversion of a two year old thread. I do not see how it can go anywhere.
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Then there is nothing more to say. Let us rest here.
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You are right. What is fact for you; is not so for me. Let rest here.
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You keep saying that over and over and over, but keep coming back with bizarre and evidence-free claims.
If you want things to “rest”, then STOP making claims about the Exodus narrative that you can’t back up with hard evidence (a category which does not include ancient legends and/or thin coincidences). There is no evidence that the Yadavas were an ancient people (let alone the same people as the ancient Israelites), there is no evidence that the Exodus was a historical event (let alone that it started off in the Indus valley), and there is no evidence that Moses was a real historical figure (let alone that he is Krishna).
Each time you make such an absurd claim, somebody is likely to come along and contradict you on it.
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There are so many forums where u can discuss the reality of the exodus. I am happy to discuss exodus from Indus instead of egypt.
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The title of this forum is “Peaceful Science” – so the existence (or lack thereof) of empirical evidence is nearly always relevant.
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The title of this thread is “Did Moses Write the Pentateuch?”, so “exodus from Indus instead of egypt” is off-topic as well as lacking any hard evidence.
Summarize 1: @jongarvey
Therein lies the complexity of the whole critical OT studies project of the last 200 years, and its influence on the Evangelical mindset.
RS ask: Can you tell me more about the evangelical mindset? How and by whom are they influenced? What if some people were not influenced? Would the evangelical mindset still accept them?
Summarize 2: @jongarvey
However, it’s probably fair to say that the last few years (for good reasons) has seen a lot of Evangelical scholars rehabilitating Moses both as an historical figure and as a source behind the Pentateuch.
RS ask: What is “rehabilitating?” Can you tell me more about what that means in reference to Moses and any references to “Did Moses Write the Pentateuch?”
There is so much literature both for reality and nonreality of the exodus. I cannot lead u through it please.
Yes. Whether Moses wrote the pentatuech would require examination of where mitsrayim and Sinai are located.
No. The location of Egypt is a given. Authorship of the Pentateuch is independent of that consideration.
Where the “literature” is ancient legend, it is not evidence for the reality of the Exodus narrative.
Then please STOP making assertions you are unwilling (or unable) to substantiate.
This assertion is unsubstantiated.
Further, as all evidence (linguistic, physical culture, etc) suggests that the ancient Israelites were native to the Levant, and there is no evidence linking them to the Indus valley, your “examination” would appear pointless.
Same for you.
No. Please substantiate.
The Bible does not use the name egypt. It only by geographical descriptions that we locate mitsrayim. So we may examine whether the geographical descriptions match better with alternative locations.