Thats a nonsense argument and you know it.
I think that Idea is based on a false narrative other than that Biblical books where collected and then organized as one, not created.
Whats more interesting to me is the influence of Plato in Education. Reverences to his work and thinking are scattered through the new testament. It doesn’t speak to plagiarism but Education views of morality etc. If you read the Republic by plato you will run across dozens of wordings and Ideas process of thought which are reflected in the new testament by Jesus, Paul and John. Jesus being the good Shepard that cares for his sheep is one example, and the seek the interest of others in Philippians 4:11-12 and Philippians 2:4
and phrases like more precious than gold. and sliver and gold have I none but what I have I give to you… for plato that was virtue, for Peter that was healing. Funny enough when they say the woman touched the hem of Jesus’ they say virtue left his body…
I said this to say, You do not see this sort of pondering of ethics by plato in the Old testament. you do see it in the new testament. It puts the content of the mind of the writers of the old testament before Plato. basically before 400 BC
Until you can cite ancient Egyptian literature that includes a crucified messiah, I would say that your conjecture is highly implausible. There are many cross-shaped items throughout the archeological record, no doubt due to the simplicity of attaching two sticks in that shape.
However, the widespread practice of executing criminals by crucifixion seems to be unique to the Roman Empire. For example…
A nail was found hammered into one of the man’s heel bones, evidence that he was crucified. (Image credit: Albion Archaeology)
A man in Roman England, possibly a slave, died brutally when he was crucified in the third or fourth century A.D., according to the archaeologists who found his remains, including a nail hammered through one of his heel bones.
Source: Rare evidence of Roman crucifixion uncovered in the UK | Live Science
Best regards,
Chris
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Until you can cite ancient Roman literature that includes a crucified messiah or anyone else being crucified, I would say that your conjecture is highly implausible. There are many cross-shaped items throughout the archeological record, no doubt due to the cross you’ll see if you go outside a squint at the sun. Like other dying and rising solar characters this is where the Christian cross really comes from. However, the widespread practice of executing criminals by crucifixion seems to be unique to the Christian literature and its myths of persecution. Thousands of people were supposedly crucified and you hilariously have only one piece of physical evidence. I think it is safe to assume that this “physical evidence” like all other Christian “evidences” is a fake. Or it could be an example of history copying fiction. Not buying any of it but since it’s all you have, you’ll cling to it while the ship of Christianity continues to go down like the Titanic.
You are arguing a fallacy. one does not have to have per-existance to exist. There may be parents of a thought, there may be Ideas in a society but people can choose to use them without being counterfeit. They can also use them before the actual known items or verse is more publicly told to the masses. Who could tell which one came first. The use of a X does not negate the use of a cross. And if tomorrow I choose to reply to someone else, its not cause I saw the word reply on this site. the word is in the English language. You might say a tweet is owned by twitter and to some degree sure, but the bird will not agree. Which came first the bird or Jack Dorky. At least when you argue argue with some sort of virtue.
Wikipedia - Appian’s Roman History and The Civil Wars
Wikipedia - Crucifixion
I am Spartacus.
I trust you are not referring to the Ankh.
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considering that Jesus was talking with Pilate and the Religious leaders in the temple. You could pretty much guess that Since Mount of Olives is just a stones throw from the temple (a slight bit more… ) you can be sure that his death happened in less than a days walk. but just outside the city. the Old city is about 1KM wide. The mount of Olives is less than a KM from that. The church of the Holy Sepulcher is less that a half a KM from the temple mount. And the Garden tomb is less than a KM from there. maybe just over a half a KM. Any way you slice it. Jesus was killed very close to the temple.
Just for the record, this does not come as news and is pretty common knowledge. Crucifixion, however, often did involve a cross beam, as the wiki article discusses. No matter, the point is that it is an apparatus of crucifixion, and the traditional cross is emblematic of that.
Uh…congratulations?
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You claim to have read the Bible so carefully and done all this work you must have seen the name “Pilate” thousands of times and you still can’t spell it. That tells me all I need to know about your claims.
Crucifiction.
If spelling was a condition of going to heaven I would end up in hell. it is what it is.
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Hey, I was looking at some notes. Did you know that Plato outed himself by mentioning parts of the 10 commandments IN book 4 part one near the end of that section of "the republic. And he says God does not lie and does not change. And personifies wisdom. Its as if he has a Bible which he will not use in his School because of cancel culture, but is actively using it intentionally obscuring that he is using it. He tries to look smart but all he is doing is trying to sum up concepts from the Hebrew Bible. I guess as he says, Necessity is the mother of invention. (something to that effect.)
That said, its pretty clear the opposite that in the new testament Paul, Peter and John all were familiar with his work and James. If I didn’t know better I would think the Republic was written in the 2nd century pulling quotes from Biblical writers.
Fortunately for Christians hell does not exist because the Bible says liars will be sent there. And if heaven is real fortunately there won’t be any annoying Christians there. You’ve read the first few chapters of Genesis and parts of John’s Gospel Christian apologists pointed you to after interpreting them (incorrectly) for you. That’s it, that is the extent of your reading and we both know it. The Bible boring trying to read it as history which is why you Christians don’t read it.
BTW the Old Testament writers used Plato as a source, not the other way around.
LoL. not so. Plato wasn’t even alive. And he is more like Paul the Apostle in his introspective speculation as to what morality is rather than the way the Old Testament reads. They are totally different writing styles and its clear they are not contemporary. Plato is his own vegetable and its clear he is not in the salad of the Jews or Christians. The Christians do quote from him but the Jews do not but neither are in any way trying to copy his work. Christians do seem to have some of the same wordings of a few phrases suggesting they know of him, but it is very possible that he didn’t even exist and was written in during the 400’s so the Greeks could have some history.
Unlike Paul, Plato actually existed. There’s no mention of this world traveling, church planting, miracle performing, Mars Hill preaching, philosopher debating, often arrested friend of the Caesars called Paul by any historians at any time. He’s an invention of the Church. By assuming the early fictitious dating of the Old Testament by Christian apologists you are made to believe many other falsehoods. Plato was dead before the Old Testament began to be redacted. He could not have known about or borrowed from something that didn’t even exist during his lifetime.
I don’t think there is any legit copies of Plato until the 4th century.
They were making a ice cream shop. OR ?
What most people don’t seem to realize is that the Bible was written by religious men, priests, rabbis and evangelists. So, their goal was not to write history because that is not what they were trained to do nor was it ever their intention. Their goal was to write theology, in particular astrotheology.
I guess other than Luke who was a doctor and Historian and Persons like Moses who were trained in Egypt or Daniel the same and Joseph as well and Paul who was a very schooled person versed in Greek culture a traveler and Even visited Saudi Arabia to go to the Moses Mountain. They wrote history because they were making it. Luke traveled with Paul. Matthew was a tax collector very able and educated. And they all were despised by Jewish Religious leadership and they used the slur that they were unlearned men. But they did say, these guys recognized they had been with Jesus. In other words, they were taught by Jesus who was well known to be a expert and had a huge following.
The names attached to gospels were given by the Church a century after they were kidnapped by the Church. Nobody knows who wrote any of them. Whoever wrote Luke was not an historian, he was an evangelist for the early Church. He never identifies himself or his qualifications, or evaluates his sources. He doesn’t discuss or reveal his methodology. Almost all theology contains travel narratives. The Bible is full of them. We know the author copied from Mark’s Gospel and Josephus and claims to be giving an orderly account be we know he changed many things. And more proof that you’ve never even read the Bible is the fact that author admits he’s not an eyewitness but claims to have gotten his information from others who claimed they were. That’s not even true either. None of the figures you mentioned, Moses, Daniel, Paul, Matthew, Luke, Jesus can be found in the historical record. They are fictional characters.
The only reason I even respond to your nonsense is so that the other people on this site can see who it is they are agreeing with here. They have only two choices and apparently, they’ve all aligned themselves with you. So, Ron, Dan, Chris and the rest of you, I present your authority on the Bible: Evolution_is_a_Hoax Guy. A guy who clearly has not read the Bible. You can try to adopt some middle of the road position but the religion you for some weird reason are trying to protect doesn’t allow that. Religion is a hell of a drug.