Wasn’t the Messiah supposed to save Israel and bring it to prominence? Wasn’t Israel quickly conquered, with Muslims holding control over Israel for a larger part of history after Jesus? It would appear that Muslims were able to thwart God’s will for centuries at a time.
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If you want to start to understand the prophecy read Isaiah 53. Christs first mission was prophesied to be exactly what happened. He would die to atone for sins through his own sacrifice and change peoples hearts. He would spread Gods word around the world. The plan is pretty much unfolding as per the OT prophecies.
Why did He (God) have to die through his own sacrifice to atone for sins against Him? And I don’t think it changed many hearts. Humanity was pretty brutal 2000 years ago as well as now.
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Many Jewish sources claim that Isaiah 53 is talking about the nation of Israel:
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Read it and judge for yourself. Until 1000 years ago the Jews considered it a Messianic prophecy.
I did, and I have judged. I agree with the Jewish scholars.
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I see it differently.
I think you want to agree with the Jewish scholars. There is no way with an unbiased reading you can not recognize it as a Messianic prophecy.
But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
Who was “he” and who was"our". Who was “us” and who was “him”. Who was healed.
Let me give you the first clue “our” is the Jewish prophet Isaiah and the Jewish people .
This is one of many Messianic prophecies is the OT.
I have come to the very opposite conclusion. Not only that, but Jesus failed to meet all of the major requirements for being the Messiah:
Those verses are describing the Servant of God, which is the Nation of Israel.
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Those verses are describing the Servant of God, which is the Nation of Israel.
The only way to interpret it this way is to try and match a narrative. You did not explain our and he. All you did was assert your position.
- Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).
- Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).
- Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: “Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore.” (Isaiah 2:4)
- Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: “God will be King over"
You realize there is a second coming right?
Deuteronomy 18 15-19
5 “The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brothers—it is to him you shall listen— 16 just as you desired of the Lord your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly, when you said, ‘Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God or see this great fire any more, lest I die.’ 17 And the Lord said to me, ‘They are right in what they have spoken. 18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers. And I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him. 19 And whoever will not listen to my words that he shall speak in my name, I myself will require it of him.
If you read the old testament without trying to deny the Jewish Messiah you will see Christ all over it. The 53 chapter of Isaiah describes exactly Jesus exactly the way the New Testament describes him. There is a reason the Jews pulled this from their teaching.
Here is a confession of one of the most known Rabbi’s in the world right now with 5 current best selling books and speaking engagements at the last 2 Presidential inauguration breakfasts. One is posted earlier.
What do you see differently?
Ok.
There is? When did this happen? If someone can claim to be the Messiah because they can come back some unspoken time in the future and fulfill the prophecies, then I can be the Messiah.
Doesn’t change the fact that Isaiah 53 is talking about the nation of Israel, not the Messiah.
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We are done.
That the Judeo Christian world view is true.
You can’t even articulate what the Judeo Christian world view is. Let alone get any agreement on what it means among over 45,000 denominations of Christians.
There are core shared values. Do you really think there are 45000 worldview? I don’t agree w Ken Ham that the literal truth of genesis is mission critical to the faith yet there are core values we share. There are many core values I believe you and I share. Although one is not that we live in a random accident universe.
To be fair, there are Jewish interpretations of this passage which apply it to the Messiah, even in the early Christian era (such as Targum Jonathan), and even in the medieval era (such as Pesiqta Rabbati and the Zohar).
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Okay tell me all about the core shared values on same sex marriage?
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Do you think the issue is the top priority to try and achieve common ground?
Why don’t you ask the Methodists about it! You are making the claim that all Christendom is united on unchanging God-given Judaeo Christian values. You fall to recognize that this is false. Morals, laws, ethics, and values change with societal and cultural norms. In this century, it is secular humanist values of The Enlightenment along with the advancements of science and technology that drives our culture today. Your biblical Judaeo Christian values are now perceived as a failed ideology like fascism and communism. It is Christian Nationalists who show the most intolerance, inequality and injustice.