I didn’t see a reply button above to make a comment on the extra/broken Chromosome. First my problem is I cant spell worth beans or remember how to spell Chromosome. But as per that issue, My quandary is why would it mean anything close to the same thing. I find the whole thing of a genetic code a bit of a mystery.
I wish I had 9 lives one of them could be spend sorting out why a cell knows what to do with the DNA…
I find it next to miraculous that a couple cells replicate over and over but some then when its the right time start becoming a liver others start becoming skin and others start becoming a spine, nerves, disks and such and these things interweave between separate shaped bones and arteries weave in and out around the body tying in just right. I am sort of jealous.
I renovate these days, doing basements, kitchens, bathrooms etc… And I used to build homes and do additions when I was younger… And I am Jealous at the whole thing… the spell checker, the RNA the cells and antibodies and all the systems and its all put together as if it is a Borg ship organized under one central command.
So I said that to say, when I see a broken Chromosome, I am highly doubtful its that simple. And if it is, then in theory some of these big shots now should be able to put it back together. what they do with it is another issue. Considering that a body has a billion copies the only way that would have got that way would be for the problem to have happened right at conception. And if so, possibly it could be fixed and other things fixed at conception. Who knows what would come out on the other end.
Well, there are excellent books about development, some of which are pretty accessible. I don’t know that you really need nine lives – just a quiet place to do some reading. It’s fair to say that nobody like you or like me who isn’t a specialist in this stuff is going to come anywhere near understanding all that is known about development, but the important concepts and processes are all described in such things as Sean Carroll’s books. I don’t know offhand of a good book on embryology but that’d be another good place to start.
As for chromosomes “breaking” I can’t tell you much about processes or results, though I’m sure others here know a great deal about that. But if you’re talking about the reason why humans have two chromosomes fewer than other primates do, it’s extremely clear that that was a fusion in the line leading to humans, not an increase in chromosome number in all of the other primate lineages, for the reasons given by @John_Harshman above.
Heck, I’ve got to read that. Ordering it now.
read it for me… LoL. let me know if they actually get into the details or if they just gloss over everything… Some times people write books just to write a book…
Golly. That’s not much of an attitude for getting started reading some real science. Why don’t you try the Amazon “Look Inside” feature and see what you think? It looks to me like it has a nice level of detail for a nonspecialist who is just exploring, and it comes recommended by a graduate student in evolutionary biology who routinely contributes well-thought-out, informative posts on this forum.
But, you know, if you don’t want to read, that’s fine, too. Most people don’t want to know anything about developmental biology. But if you are going to have strong opinions about topics such as evolution, on which developmental biology has an extremely strong bearing, you might want to try to understand exactly what it is that the scientists are claiming happens and what the evidence for those claims is. You don’t have to agree with them; but if you’re going to disagree, you will be better able to disagree if you understand what they’re saying in the first place.
Actually I trusted you, thinking you knew and would know and on your recommendation I would buy it. If it was a actual free audio book I would listen to it at work. If it was my primary focus right now I would run out to get it…
I have other “need to know” things I need to know, but there are no books written on the things I am working on. Not that I am aware of. And they are not about genetics, but about physics and material science at subzero temperatures.
Well, I haven’t read it. But I have ordered it. I’ll try to remember to drop you a note about it when I’ve read it.
LoL. thats great. I would hope it would have more information than a bit of general talk… You would think by now stem cell research would have led to a way for them to grow just about any organ and possibly one that is genetically suited for a person. So I don’t think they have a set of keys to the car or know the bare basics yet. It seems pretty easy for a Fetus to develop a heart and lungs etc. I don’t think they give the little baby and its cells enough credit for what it just did.
I highly doubt any book on the shelf today has a break down of how the body chooses where to put things as it builds from scratch… So you likely will be disappointed. I have speculated that there was a cell phone network and a postal address system that gives a type of GPS location sort of like a puzzle with 6 numbers on each piece so that it would know the location of the piece and how far away it likely is from other parts. I have speculated that there may be stages where cells go to their puzzle locations and then start the process but the problem is things like the blood system or nerves or the lymphatic system. It would suggest millions of detailed interconnected construction sites all worked out and possible because of 3 billion letters. with over 3 trillion cells in the human body its a big puzzle for any information system to juggle.
So, I rather you read the book… LoL. then tell me they just skimmed over some basics. Saves me all the trouble. LoL.
Well, you know, books which are designed for people who are new to a subject will always be a bit general. It’s the nature of the beast. So, I have books on synapsid evolution that are written for the layman (alas, so few!), and those are broad, general and very helpful as a starter. But I also have Thomas Kemp’s Origin and Evolution of Mammals, which is what the average person would consider (judging from the things people say in Amazon book reviews of science books) to be extremely technical, and which I have to read slowly and carefully to be sure I’m really getting it right. But a specialist would NOT consider the Kemp book to be extremely technical. She’d consider it (female pronoun here as the last person I discussed it with was a female paleo grad student) to be somewhat technical but mostly a broad overview of the subject. And then I get the Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology delivered to my door every few months, and holy cow, half the papers in there are like a brick wall to my poor little layman face. When I am strongly interested in a particular paper it is a hideously slow slog to read and understand it. But a specialist in vertebrate paleo would have a MUCH easier time.
When books for a popular audience do not constitute a deep dive, and when you feel you’re ready for a deep dive, I think you probably just need to figure out what aspects of the subject you want to focus on. You may not be able to even find a book – you may have to head to a university library and start digging through the primary literature, and you may find that some of it hits you in the face the way the JVP often does me.
In other words: it’s reasonable to expect decent simplified summary explanations with clear examples, from a trade book for a general audience. It’s reasonable to expect more from a textbook or general treatise written for a more sophisticated audience. And it’s reasonable to expect that if you really want to know a field’s new insights at the deepest level, inside and out, this will take a very, very large amount of work. The fact that the trade book for the layman doesn’t contain it all is inherent in the depth of these subjects – it’s not that the trade book isn’t well written or accurate.
Life Unfolding is written for a general audience, but it is by no means a light weight read. I found the book both demanding and rewarding. The growth of a human being - able to create art, pursue big dreams, and live large - from a single cell seems miraculous, yet for every step in the process cells are just responding to identified physical and biochemical signals in their immediate setting. Reading this I was frequently left wondering, “seriously, this actually works?”; but we know it does, often because of the tragic outcomes when the process does not quite go as it’s supposed to. This book is well worth the investment.
thanks for the brief summary… I wish you would give us a bigger taste of what was in the book. people talk about how they get the caramel inside the chocolate bar, but I think its more interesting how 8 cells become what would be a bundle of bones filled with bone marrow. It sure is something.
while contemplating the thoughts today on the thread a scripture came to mind… David says in Psalms 139:13 For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb.
It made me think of it because of knitting… there is a design someone knitting uses to get the sweater made… My mother now long passed used to knit… terms like Purl and stitch and loop… Its been a while… but the birth of a baby from just such a little bit of DNA in a few cells is just something amazing. stitch purl… Stitch purl…
You know, it sometimes pays just to read the book. The tradeoff between brevity and informativeness will favor informativeness if you read the book, and that seems to be what you’re hoping for, so I’d say go for it…
Can’t help you with your inferiority complex, but I ask again: why are you here? Not why you came here, but why you stay.
the same reason people open the door when someone knocks… A Email was sent so I came alone… whats it to you? If someone walks on the sidewalk do you ask them why do you walk there? Who cares… why are you here. and who cares. worry about yourself. I think some of the conversation was interesting and filled up time pretty well. made me think and made others think… if for thinking sake so be it… If you have something holding you up go on and do what you got to do… No one is stopping you.
Overuse of ellipses is not a good sign, incidentally.
Hey at least he appears to have stopped completely embarrassing himself on the LTEE.
Rude. I guess your public self didn’t evolve.
Your ignorance is not a valid argument.