Adam and the Patriarchs of Genesis, Literally

I have a pet theory that I want picked apart. I’ve been wrestling with it for some time. Right from the start I thought it was just too ridiculous to be true. That was over 10 years ago. The problem is I can’t find a good concrete reason to brand it ridiculous and dismiss it. It just keeps making too much sense to me to let it go.

Genesis 6

1 When human beings began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them,

2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose.

3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal ; their days will be a hundred and twenty years.”

4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

Hypothesis

Hypothesis - Adam and Eve created exactly as described in a region already populated by naturally evolved humanity (5500BC). Humans, for a period of roughly 2000 years, coexisting with generations of beings who all live ten times longer than “mortal” humans. Lifespans that gradually decline each generation, as written, as they interbreed with “mortal” humans.

This idea stems from those first few verses from Genesis 6 that speak of two groups, the “sons of God”’ and the “daughters of humans” inter-breeding. And where God calls humans “mortal” in comparison.

Then there’s that curious line about the Nephilim, presumably the off-spring of this pairing. Mentioned as if assumed by the author these figures would be familiar to the reader. You know, the “heroes of old, men of renown”.

The gods of Ancient Mythology

Polytheist cultures: Sumer, Egypt, Indus Valley, Greece, Rome, Celtic/German

Polytheism wasn’t universal, though it certainly seems so from the biblical perspective as it was universal among all the peripheral characters that line the story. The Sumerians, Egyptians, Hittites, etc.

Actually polytheism is a very localized phenomenon. All right there in that region of the world. All other human populations throughout the tens of thousands of years that humans have inhabited this planet held more of a concept of animism if anything.

Polytheism is generally thought of as a natural kind of psychological progression of “civilized” man attempting to make sense out of what he doesn’t understand. When really it’s an unusual turn from the vast majority of human cultures. And not something it seems would likely occur psychologically half a dozen different times totally independently of one another, each in its own unique language and culture, yet share such commonality in the types of gods they “imagined”.

Each of the handful of advanced civilizations that sprung up in that part of the world in that age share a similar history. Fantastical stories about male/female gods in their ‘ancient’ past who lived among them. Interacted with them. Sometimes married and interbred with them.

Example

In the case of the Sumerians, the earliest and nearest to the biblical narrative, they themselves directly say their civilization was the result of a god showing up and gifting them the decrees of civilization (Mes).

They say they were taught. And they’re incredibly specific about it. Also, as a side note, when the Sumerians created images of these gods standing next to Sumerians, they were roughly twice as tall. Similar to what the spies report back from Hebron in Numbers.

Numbers 13:

32 And they brought up an evil report of the land which they had searched unto the children of Israel, saying, The land, through which we have gone to search it, is a land that eateth up the inhabitants thereof; and all the people that we saw in it are men of a great stature .
33 And there we saw the giants , the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.

Sumerian tablet depicting one of their gods, the Annunaki

Biblical Story in this Context

For the biblical narrative in this context, “immortal” beings would have existed all throughout the region from Adam through to around the time of Abraham. Abraham would have lived during a period when the last of these long-living beings would have been dying out. The “there’s only one God” message he was preaching was because everyone around him was worshiping the immortal family of Adam that had ruled the region for generations. The “sons of God”.

Historically, this would put Abraham’s lifetime around 3500BC, right around the same age as the emergence of the first writing systems. Humanity’s first authors recording the oral stories of an age quickly fading from memory.

Ridiculous, isn’t it? Can’t be true. I feel the same. Can you tell me why?

What do you think? Am I totally off the rails with this? If you can give me a good solid reason to dismiss this and forget about it that would be great. It’s always been my weird, sometimes embarrassing little secret alternate worldview that I hold that no one knows what to make of. And I say worldview because I’m beginning to believe it.

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This is a big problem with your theory. Polytheism is much more widespread than that. Japan, China, India, Mexico, Europe, Polynesia all come to mind immediately. The Middle East is not special in having this sort of legends.

Yes, and both Coyote and Raven serve the same function in many American cultures.

All those folks were wiped out in the Flood or died earlier. Only Noah’s family was left to found all those cultures, and they didn’t live so long.

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Hey John. Thanks for the feedback.

Re: Polytheism

India - That’s the Indus Valley culture I mentioned.
Europe - Includes Greeks/Romans, also included.

Yes, there are other examples of Polytheism beyond this area in a broad/general sense. But these have roots that go right back to origin. For example, Polynesia, Scholars believe that humans first migrated to Polynesia from Southeast Asia about 2,000 years ago. These people carried with them their mythological traditions about events, deities, and heroes.

The same goes for Mexico, the Olmecs, the parent culture of the Incan/Myans. There’s been a number of write-ups recently, like on Academia, showing ties between the Olmecs and the Shang dynasty of China. Evidence for this includes cultural similarities between Indians of the Pacific north-west and dynastic Chinese culture (such as artwork, clothing, drums and diet) and linguistic similarities.

Similar to a game of telephone, the further you get away from the origin the less similar they are. None of these are the same as those in the “cradle of civilization”, which is something more along the lines of what’s generally thought of when speaking of polytheism. A pantheon of gods.

Re: Your comparison of Sumerians taught and Coyote/Raven in American cultures

Among the list of ‘mes’, the decrees of the gods gifted to the Sumerians, were things like “kingship”. And among the many things the Sumerians invented, Monarchical government is one.Things well beyond and much more specific than what we can compare to Coyotes or Ravens in American cultures.

Re: "Only Noah’s family was left…"

Yes. Exactly. The “table of nations”. In this context the three groups of Noah’s families would have led to the first cultures after being scattered at Babel.

For example, the Greeks say that their ancestor was a man named Japetos, and you can see in that the resemblance to Japheth. They regarded him as not only the father of their race, but the father of all humanity.

Sure, but from southeast Asia (Taiwan, if I recall). You need to get those stories from the Near East to Taiwan.

Now that’s a reach. Academia is not a peer reviewed source; any crackpot can post to Academia, and many do.

“Well beyond” seems an arbitrary judgment, and certainly the gifts of Coyote and Raven are equally specific, if not always the same gifts. All this seems like special pleading: you dispose of non-Mesopotamian gods by two excuses: “those aren’t gods”, and “they’re diffusions from Mesopotamia”. I don’t think there’s evidence for either contention.

I presume you refer to Iapetus, who wasn’t a man but a Titan, and folk etymology is not good reasoning.

More importantly, you’re trying to explain using events that never happened. There was no Flood; there was no recent creation; civilization didn’t arise only in the Middle East.

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Asia doesn’t share comparable mythological stories. And neither does what’s found in Polynesia or Mexico. They can only really be called “polytheist” in the most general of terms. For example, Chinese traditional theology is fundamentally monistic. That is to say it sees the world and the gods who produce it as an organic whole, or cosmos.

I disagree. The decrees of the gods to the Sumerians were specific to the building blocks of civilization that are actually observed in Sumerian culture. There’s a direct tie between what they lay out as far as these decrees and what was invented, like the world’s first Monarchy. Things dramatically different than what came before. The same can’t be said of what came of those American cultures.

Yes, to the Greeks the families of Noah would not be humans, but immortal gods who live 4/5x longer.

What makes you so certain? Part of what I’m trying to show is that it’s possible these events really did happen, just like what’s described, and that these events offer a better explanation than what’s generally given as to how it all happened.

Geology, history, the fossil record, radiometric dating, archaeology, etc.

All of which I draw from to conclude they really did happen.

The flood is a tricky one. We’ve got limited data from 1920’s as the region hasn’t been open to archeological investigation since as it’s in modern day Iraq.

But both Genesis and the Sumerian King’s List say the flood happened before the establishment of the Sumerian city of Uruk, which would put it between the two Sumerian periods, Ubaid and Uruk. Roughly 4000BC. Arthur Whooley found a thick silt deposit at the Ur site that actually separated artifacts below from Ubaid and above from Uruk, strongly suggesting the flood that created this silt deposit played a role in the ending of the Ubaid period.

I think there really was a flood. Not global and not as devastating as what’s generally described, but devastating enough that it brought Sumerian history to a halt for a while, as the Sumerian King’s List reflects.

Another event that ties the flood to this period is a climatological event called the 5.9 kiloyear event that happened roughly 3900BC that closely resembles what’s described as the mass dispersion at Babel.

I appreciate the feedback. It’s clear simply referring to it as “Polytheism” is a bit too broad to illustrate what I’m attempting to point out. In philosophical circles what I’m speaking of is specified as “Hard Polytheism” …

Hard Polytheism :
The belief, prevalent in mythology , in many gods and goddesses which appear as distinct and independent beings, often in conflict with one another. Examples are the ancient Sumerian, Egyptian, Greek and Roman mythologies, as well as Norse, Aztec and Yoruba mythologies. Another example of hard polytheism is Euhemerism , the postulate that all gods are in fact historical humans .

What’s Easy Polytheism, then? Or is it Soft Polytheism? And did you make that up or find it somewhere you haven’t cited?

Oh, yeah, sorry …

Soft Polytheism :
The belief (similar to inclusive monotheism ) in many gods and goddesses which are considered to be manifestations or “aspects” of a single God, rather than completely distinct entities. This view sees the gods as being subsumed into a greater whole, as in most forms of Hinduism and some New Age currents of Neo-Paganism .
https://www.philosophybasics.com/branch_polytheism.html

I don’t think the Hindu gods originated as “soft polytheism”; that’s a more recent theology. Can you name another soft polytheism other than Hinduism?

Native Americans are a good example. Many tribes/groups had each their own set of deities usually representing things like the wind, the sun, winter, goddess of the hunt… List of Native American deities - Wikipedia

They had names but they were never embodied as physical figures. It was all part of the spirit realm that interconnected all things.

Looks to me as if most or all of those are embodied as physical figures. I’m not sure what you mean by that. And they’re all separate individuals, not aspects of a single God, at least as far as I can see.

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Not in the same way. For example, in Sumerian mythology, Gilgamesh was a half god/half man. A god in this case mated with a Sumerian woman. The same as what’s common and Greek and Roman mythology.

The native American gods weren’t part of a big family all squabbling with each other and interacting with the people’s ancestors in the ancient past. They’re spirits. To native Americans all life and all of nature is interconnected spiritually. And their deities are spirits.

It seems to me that your criteria for what constitutes true polytheism are rapidly evolving. It may not be (or may be; I don’t know) that Native American gods are part of a big family, but they certainly squabble with each other and interact with people, and they do have bodies, not just spirits. Where are you getting your information?

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Not evolving. What you’re pointing out actually does illustrate quite well what I’m trying to highlight. That what happened at the dawn of civilization around the setting of Genesis was a divergence from the natural progression of human cultures elsewhere.

The emergence of polytheism was always assumed to be a psychological progression. The result of bronze age people associating things in nature with imagined gods who control it all. And that type of reasoning really does apply well in cases like native Americans and other groups like them. That model fits with these types of mythologies.

But in the case of that handful of civilizations in and around the setting of Genesis it’s a very different matter. And that difference is why a distinction is made between hard/soft Polytheism. This highlights the difference that makes these significant in my view. One type really does reflect that psychological progression, the other looks much more like what you’d expect if the scenario I’m putting forth really did play out that way.

I think you’re imagining and cherry-picking. Recall that the Aztec religion was one of those in your quoted definition of hard polytheism, and you’re forced to go to ad hoc cultural diffusion to explain it.

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Oh no, I’m not imagining. Yes, you’re right, they did include the Aztecs in that quote. But look at the list of gods under Pantheon here … Aztec mythology - Wikipedia

These are different. They’re not listed as sons or daughters of other deities. They’re not an extended family. They’re not a race. It’s a ‘god of fire’, or ‘god of rain’. These are not in the same category and I haven’t found any further support for Aztecs being counted as a hard Polytheism culture.

There’s a definite distinction. Not imagined or cherry-picked.

There is nothing in the definition of “hard polytheism” you quoted that refers to families or races. Again, your definition is evolving. And I see you have also changed your story from the Aztec gods being cultural transfer from the Middle East to being home-grown but not fitting the requirements. More evolution.

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I think we’re getting side-lined with the term “polytheism”. Generally, when speaking of ‘polytheism’, this is what comes to mind. Greek mythology. Roman mythology. But when just the term itself’s meaning of ‘multiple gods’ then things become conflated. My mistake was in referring to it simply by that term and not clarifying.

My definition isn’t evolving, but my approach in discussing it certainly is. This is an area where it helps having these discussions.

Here’s a rough sketch of the timeline as I see it …

5500BC - Adam Created

5400BC - First phase of Sumer (Ubaid) and first city, Eridu (the same city Gen says Cain built)

4000BC - Flood, ending Ubaid period in Mesopotamia

3900BC - Babel (5.9 kiloyear event)
"The 5.9 kiloyear event was one of the most intense aridification events during the Holocene Epoch. It occurred around 3900 BC (5,900 years BP), ending the Neolithic Subpluvial and probably initiating the most recent desiccation of the Sahara.

Thus, it also triggered worldwide migration to river valleys, such as from central North Africa to the Nile valley, which eventually led to the emergence of the first complex, highly organized, state-level societies in the 4th millennium BC. It is associated with the last round of the Sahara pump theory." - https://cof.quantumfuturegroup.org/events/5370

Here the families of Noah were scattered and their languages confused. Language confusion achieved by scattering them through extreme climate change out of southern Mesopotamia and to river valleys already populated by humans.

In each of the three areas, Egypt to the west, the Indus Valley to the east, and back in Sumer where the second phase, Uruk period, began, we see a continuance of the behaviors observed by God at Babel. They were building. Inventing.

Sumer - 3500 - 1940 BC
Ancient Egypt – 3400 – 30 BC
Indus Valley Culture – 3300 – 1700 BC

What’s especially note-worthy here is that from all three of these cultures we get the invention of writing and the emergence of the polytheistic mythological stories. All independently of one another as evidenced by the fact that they each spoke three distinctly different languages.

This I believe is evidence of Noah’s families occupying the region and influencing the people that lived there.