Christianity and Islam

Good idea. Let’s ask @Roels_Major.

@Roels_Major, why are you Muslim rather than say Christian (or agnostic/atheist)?

Muslim or Christian or Jew is a certain designation for a certain group, yes because all are accustomed to a certain label for a number of characteristics that can be observed.

I have said before that a Muslim is someone who submits completely to one God, God of the universe. Muslims can be observed from their unique characteristics, namely believing in only One God, believing in the existence of messengers and prophets and the last is Prophet Muhammad, believing in angels, believing in God’s decrees, believing in the existence of a judgment day, and believing in previous scriptures that have revealed to the previous prophets and apostles.

Muslims are also obliged to pledge against the only true God and the existence of Muhammad as the last messenger and prophet, to pray five times a day, fasting in the month of Ramadan, pay zakat, and if able to carry out the final worship visit Makkah and Medina (Hajj and Umrah).

Can it be considered someone who surrendered himself to God if he did not have the six elements of faith and the five elements of salvation (Islam = survival)? Can not. So it must have the minimum characteristics of believing in God. Now this is what is considered the level of faith or the level of Islam is not strong enough.

I think so.

I understand there are five pillars of Islam.

But my question is - how do you know Islam is true and not say Christianity or any other religion?

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I believe in Islam mainly because of the guidance given by God in the Quran and many hadiths of the Prophet. Hadith is very difficult to check because it is an oral tradition that contains the way the Prophet lived within the framework of Islam (law), while the Quran tells its readers to think about all kinds of things, providing instructions for humans to live in this world. God commands us to pay attention to certain things, and many of these signs can be personal today that I know are in accordance with what modern observations implement, at least generally so.

One example:

Ar-Rum verses 2-7.

  1. Byzantium was defeated
  2. on the ground near; but it is they who, despite their defeat, will win
  3. In recent years: [due to] relying on God all the power of judgment, first and last.2
  4. And on that day will the believers [also, have reason to] rejoice in the Lord’s help: 3 [because] He gives help to whomever He wills, because He alone is Almighty, the giver of grace.
  5. [This] promise God. Never has God failed to fulfill His promises - but most people don’t know:
  6. they know but the outer surface of the life of this world, while their last things are completely unaware.4

2 Lit., “before and after”. The defeats and victories spoken of above relate to the last phases of the centuries-long struggle between the Byzantine and Persian Empires. During the early years of the seventh century the Persians conquered parts of Syria and Anatolia, “the lands close-by”, i.e., near the heartland of the Byzantine umpire; in 613 they took Damascus and it 614, Jerusalem; Egypt fell to them in 615-16, and at the same time they laid siege to Constantinople itself. At the time of the revelation of this surah - about the seventh year before the hijrah, corresponding to 615 or 616 of the Christian era - the total destruction of the Byzantine Empire seemed imminent. The few Muslims around the Prophet were despondent on hearing the news of the utter discomfiture of the Byzantines, who were Christians and, as such, believed in the One God. The pagan Quraysh, on the other hand, sympathized with the Persians who, they thought, would vindicate their own opposition to the One-God idea. When Muhammad enunciated the above Qur’an-verses predicting a Byzantine victory “within a few years”, this prophecy was received with derision by the Quraysh. Now the term bid (commonly rendered as “a few”) denotes any number between three and ten; and, as it happened, in 622 - i.e., six or seven years after the Quranic prediction - the tide turned in favour of the Byzantines. In that year, Emperor Heraclius succeeded in defeating the Persians at Issus, south of the Taurus Mountains, and subsequently drove them out of Asia Minor. By 624, he carried the war into Persian territory and thus put the enemy on the defensive: and in the beginning of December, 626, the Persian armies were completely routed by the Byzantines.

3 This is a prediction of the battle of Badr, which was to take place eight or nine years later, in the month of Ramadan, 2 H. (corresponding to January, 624, of the Christian era), when the Muslims decisively defeated a very much superior force of pagan Quraysh (see introductory note to surah 8). The expression “on that day” has in this context the meaning of “at the same time”, for although the battle of Badr began and ended on one day, the victories of Heraclius over the Persians took some years to materialize.

4 The term al-akhirah circumscribes, in this context, both the inner reality of this world’s life and the ultimate reality of the hereafter.4

To the people of the past this was a clear indication. For us today, of course we will find out by checking many sources, and from the search results, the results are not too bad. It is generally true that this has happened in the past. So now it is in accordance with what can be observed by modern knowledge. At least so. So I think the Quran has a lot of information and currently has a lot of compatibility with modern knowledge.

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Thanks for the reply @Roels_Major!

I have a few questions.

Did Mohammed’s life set an example for how all people should behave for all time?

How important is Hadith and how important is the Quran relative to each other?

In terms of your knowledge of Islam, the Quran, Hadith, how knowledgeable would you say you are?

Which school of jurisprudence do you follow? Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi’i, Hanbali? I presume since you’re Indonesian, you are Shafi’i? And as Shafi’i, you accept uncompromisingly Sahih hadith?

From your post, do you think success in battle is evidence for Allah’s favor?

What do you think of child marriage?

From non-Sahih to Sahih, how Sahih is Al-Bukhari?

When it comes to the implementation of worship, such as the 5 daily prayers, carrying out the Hajj and so on, the answer is yes. But for example whether to go to Mecca you have to ride a camel, no. Something like that.

The hadiths are important to explain something that is not included in the Quran, such as how to pray and so on.

Basic knowledge only possible. Not an expert (scholar). My knowledge comes a lot from reading books, articles, and listening to the explanations of experts (scholars), and also experience doing many worship (ibadah).

Most Indonesians are labeled as following the Shafii school of thought, but actually according to many scholars it is wrong, because all Muslims, who are often labeled as Sunni, take a lot of considerations from all the schools. So it does not mean leaning towards one school opinion, it means that you do not believe in others.

Regarding whether a hadith is sahid or not, it is very difficult to prove it, sometimes it must be done with a long study. There are many opinions which say that it does not mean that if a hadith in a collection of sahih hadith books, then everything is sahih.

It is proof of the existence of God.

I know what your question means, but I will answer as best I can. Depending on what (scale) you measure and define “child”. In the past and even today, there are girls who are 12 years old, but already have menstruation. If you go to Borneo at this time, many girls from 12 to 16 years old are married, because they are physically judged to be ok for marriage and have menstruation. In Europe and America, maybe like that in old times, I heard some news. It is different nowadays, where the criteria for limiting children are measured by the year (how many years he or she has been from birth), not anymore showing that the child is the descendant of the parent. In many regions in Indonesia, I am still called my mother’s child even though I am 37 years old. So - (child) maybe it’s similar to the term “old baby” (bayi tua - beloved ?) :grin:

Here you can see who Bukhari is for information only:

There are those who argue that all the hadiths in the Bukhari collection of books are all sahih and there are those who argue that they are not like that, even though the collection of hadiths sahih, not all hadiths are sahih.

I’m leaning towards the explanation here:

When it comes to the implementation of worship, such as the 5 daily prayers, carrying out the Hajj and so on, the answer is yes. But for example whether to go to Mecca you have to ride a camel, no. Something like that.

Other Muslims I know try to imitate Mohammed as much as possible. Some avoid music, avoid black cats and dogs, just like Mohammed. To them, to live like Mohammed would be the ideal life.

What are your thoughts, then, of being married to a 6 year old and consummating the marriage at 9 years of age? To a girl still playing with dolls?

Was Mohammed being an example to all humans of all times?

As you have noted, Al Bukhari’s hadith are generally treated as the most Sahih, the most authentic of all hadiths.

Sahih al Bukhari’s hadith says “that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old.”

I note you have linked me two moderately long videos.

Would you be able to save me and others’ time in explaining how Mohammed marrying a 6 year old and consummating at age 9 is an example to all people for all time? Should Muslims not imitate Mohammed here, he who made an examplar life for all Muslims for all time?!?

As Aisha notes, Allah, out of all things Allah could be concerned about, appears to hasten to fulfil the physical desires of Mohammed. Including the women in your hand becoming yours, even if married.

If I am Muslim, and your wife is in my hands, should your wife be mine? Has not the Prophet set an example for us all?

If you have a six year old daughter, would you let her be married?

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Some say six years, some say nine years, some say 12 years and some say 16 years. Have you calculated it yourself based on many sources or are you just following a lot of information circulating on the internet? That is what happened with the problematic hadith which is explained in great detail in the two videos above. If you don’t want to watch it, what can I say?

I don’t believe Prophet Muhammad married Aisha when he was 6 or 9 years old. I believe more in the many studies that mention Prophet Muhammad married Aisha at the age of 12 or 16 years.

It has been explained above

It has been explained above as well and in the two videos above

You only assume and repeat the questions described above. There’s no need to impose weird looks. It’s simple, there are no Muslims who marry a baby aged 6 or 9 years, because that is not a norm or custom that is adopted by the world community anywhere today. People who hate Islam have echoed this reason for hundreds of years, so they are not surprised anymore.

It is also a question built on false assumptions that are repeated as if they were right.

Thinking too far, be careful you can go wrong. This trick question is everywhere and is repeated. It does not bring any benefits, just like thinking too far about evolution. :grin:

So you have written much to dispute the age of Aisha (despite the most authentic Al Bukhari hadith).

It appears you agree with us that it would be wrong to consummate a marriage at age 9, is that correct?

You have taken a different approach to most Muslims I have discussed this with. The others said age of marriage was cultural rather than disputing the age of Aisha.

Thinking too far, be careful you can go wrong. This trick question is everywhere and is repeated. It does not bring any benefits, just like thinking too far about evolution. :grin:

Thinking is bad eh?

Better to let others do all your thinking for you, yes?

Wherever there is a lot of debate about Aisha’s age at marriage due to this very problematic hadith. So many scholars reject the hadith from various studies.

Yes, there are Muslim scholars who argue that it is due to cultural factors and they take this approach.

I’m not saying thinking it’s bad, see above. Sometimes the mind has to rest so it doesn’t get too “wild” ?

By not wanting to watch the results of Shabeer Ali’s analysis, it proves that you are only following personal assumptions. Everyone thinks, whether you think it is not the same level or equal.

No. This is also an existing assumption. No matter you believe it, there are also many people who have other opinions. The suicide bombing was even more popular among the Irish Republican Army.

Always repeated on the basis of the same assumptions. Disinterested and sorry for Nigeria. :grin: What is clear is that it is not a fact because the Prophet Muhammad and Muslims would have rejected it. All babies in the world will run out considering that 1.5 billion are Muslims. :grin: It’s the same as saying the number of people who drowned by falling into a poll correlates with Films Nicholas Cage appeared in

Killing a soul that has been forbidden is a heinous act. Those who like to convert others are funny, usually criminals who have to survive because the state does not guarantee their right to life. I’m not sure what his religion is. Do they have a religion that has a doctrine in it that prohibits people from killing other people’s souls?

It is not Islam’s fault that it is obvious. It is also not the fault of the people who are not religious, or the fault of the religious community. It is our fault as human beings to not pay attention to them because of the possibility that they are poor or also the possibility of being trained to be radical by certain groups such as the Chinese communist party in the past (even though they changed), or al-qaeda’s hurt ranks, or the lone wolf, which we never know what their motive is. and was always thought of as crazy after interrogation. :grin:

Uh-huh, but if he did marry her at 6 or 9, would you consider that a problem?

I also have to say I find the idea of marrying a 12 or 16 year old at his age to be repulsive too.


This is because wrong opinions are popularized over and over again. Anyone can popularize it and the funny thing is that Muslims rarely appear on YouTube and say I will marry a baby. I don’t know what’s on your mind, as wild as the idea of ​​common ancestor or LUCA.

I have to say I find it highly suspect that you repeatedly refuse to answer a direct question.


You could even say marry a 12 year old or 16 year old child which is not a good idea, but what happens in Kalimantan is that most of them are from animist tribes. Just push that idea from you onto the tribe, and maybe say hey we’re great at changing the world.

Again, answer the question.

Is it reasonable to marry and consummate the marriage to a girl of 9 years of age?

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Yes because it is one of many psychological tactics to direct opinion. Don’t you know that in the medical school we also learn deeper knowledge? Psychiatry? But I don’t know, I’m not the expert.

See above :point_up_2:

I am dumb and haven’t comprehended your previous answers, and I am far too lazy to watch your videos (and I want your answer, not theirs - there are many Muslim scholar videos who are fine with marrying a 9 year old).

Yes/no, it is fine and moral to marry and have sex with a 9 year old girl.

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What freaking assumptions? Mohammed furthered Islam mostly through force and that’s what Islamic extremists are recapitulating today.

Muhammad married an underaged child, whether she was 6, 9, 12 or 16. That’s sick and if you don’t condemn it, you are no worse than those who commit pedophilia.

This is incoherent babble.

It is the fault of your prophet who used military means instead of peaceful discourse to propagate his religion in the Arab world. Christianity is not associated with terrorism because its founder did not act like Muhammad.