Common Ancestor an Unwarranted Assumption?

I have removed this entire paragraph because it kowtows to the evolutionary paradigm and I will not be party to that. In reviewing you people’s phylogenetic tree I have found that your bias is so strong that you likely have completely missed the whole history of life on this planet. 1. you approach your entire endeavor from the standpoint that life arose from the simple and advanced to the complex, something you absolutely cannot prove, and 2. because of the fossil-sorting due to the worldwide Flood you have been fooled into thinking that you are looking at a millions-of-years-old picture of the advancement of life on the planet.

Primates are mammals.

The phylogenetic tree we have now is already based on genetic relatedness. How or why do you think it needs to be “reshuffled”?

The real short answer is you have no reason at all for what you group as “template related” and what you group as non-related. You say whatever sounds good to you at the time.

That’s not much a scientific hypothesis, now is it?

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Hopefully this does not come across too critically …

We can add 2+2 and think logically because certain assumptions seem to be fundamentally true (and if they are not true, then nothing else makes any sense). In the foundations of mathematics these are the axioms from which all other mathematical theorems are formed and proven. In this sense God could only be an axiom, but not an axiom we need for math or logic. In fact, invoking God generally makes a hash out of formal logic, because anything could be true.

So if you wish I see our ability to think logically as a gift, I understand what you mean, but it doesn’t make sense if we try to express God in formal logic. Go figure. :slight_smile:

Of course I would intend mammals other than primates.

I could not find any source material to support this. I would like to see it. Can you please paste?

If you’re referring to DNA sequencing, then you’re right. No non-avian dinosaurs have had any DNA sequenced and probably never will. But your question was about archosaurs, and there are plenty of crocodylian sequences. The evidence that birds are dinosaurs comes from fossils. You can disbelieve fossil evidence, but it wouldn’t be reasonable to do so.

Your personal bias is at odds with the facts. Does that concern you?

That won’t happen, and trying to establish your pet theory in defiance of the data isn’t science.

That’s more or less already happened. But the changes were not extreme. Moreover, they don’t support any of your claims.

This is another of your beliefs at variance with the facts.

But what’s more important is that your claims are in no way clear. How can primates and mammals both have genetic templates? Primates are mammals. What does “common origins” even mean?

But primates aren’t separate from mammals. Why remove them from mammals rather than any other group. Primates aren’t that unusual, while whales and bats are quite unusual. So why primates? Also, primates are nested within a number of larger mammal groups. You really can’t separate mammals into two groups.

You could start here.

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Please name and quote 5 in each group.

In which verse did God do this? And what version of the Bible are you reading? It seems to be quite an explicit rendering.

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Here is a huge online database with a search function which allows you to enter a pair of taxa and will search the scientific literature and return an estimated divergence date based on genetic distance.

TimeTree: the Timescale of Life

You can also search for and build an evolutionary timeline or timetree for a taxa or individual species.

The data show birds and African crocodiles shared a common ancestor approx. 237 million years ago

The entire phylogeny of life is huge: a scaled down version looks like this

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The way I see it, Something’s are fundamentally true because of God.
If God was different from what he is, 2+2 would not be 4.
And we understand logic because God has shared the ability to percieve atleast some fundamental truths to us and thus enables us to think logically.

If God doesn’t exist, nothing is fundamentally true… what we percieve as truth is just our perception. 2+2 would be 4 for us… and utterly meaningless for dogs.

Which are you - YEC or progressive? You’ve been careful to avoid committing yourself to one or the other, despite it making a huge difference to your model.

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its possible that all apes share a common descent (a common ape). except for human (under the creation scenario of course).

im not sure i got your calculation. here is my calculation: first- we have empirical evidence that speciation may take about less then 100 years:

Rapid Evolution Changes Species in Real Time | DiscoverMagazine.com

Watching new species evolve in real time

so lets assume a tipical speciation event= 100 years.

one of the largest family on earth is the curculionidae which contain almost 100,000 species. so if we start with 2 species then after about one generation of a speciation event (100 years) we will get 4 different species. and after another generation of speciation we will get 8 and so on. so we only need about less then 20 generation of speciation to get more then 100,000 different species (2^20) . or about 2000 years.

Not from those references. The only example of actual speciation included, rather than just variation within a single species (which in some cases was partly if not wholly phenotypic plasticity), was the London mosquito event, which took longer than 100y.

No. There is no reason to assume that.
Nor will I assume that speciation events happen back-to-back, either.

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You mean 100 years from one speciation event to the next, for a typical animal, like a mammal? No.

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It’s already meaningless for dogs. :slight_smile:

It’s actually much worse, if some things were not fundamentally true then there would be no logic, and maybe nothing at all … Chaos doesn’t begin to describe it.

I suggest that some form of truth, stably, or order is necessary even for God to exist. The axiom of Identity states that all things are equal to themselves. Without that, God is not-God (literally).

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That is incredibly cool, @Timothy_Horton. I had seen the chart before but didn’t realize that there was an estimated-divergence-date tool. Thanks for posting the link.

Interesting thought—but what is your evidence or basis for this claim?

If that is true (or “possible”), why do the genomic data and the nested hierarchies point to humans being part of the same Common Descent? Why would what is revealed in God’s creation conflict with what (according to a particular hermeneutics concerning Genesis) is revealed in God’s scriptures?

Is that truly a “typical” speciation speed?

Why are you extrapolating such a grand scenario involving so many species based on some rapid examples? What is the logical basis of this? Why pretend that speciation usually or always takes place so quickly?

I don’t see how that makes any sense.

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How is it that things are fundamentally true? Are they not fundamentally true because the universe is (made) that way? Are you suggesting that fundamental truth that would allow for logic is a property of the universe, inherently and must be so?

God, being transcendent, would be able to ensure that this is so in the creation. The way I see it, there would be no property of the universe that could preclude his existence. Only his comprehension.

Am I misunderstanding you?

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How does this template explain the pattern of differences between the genomes of these species? Common ancestry explains both the similarities AND the differences, and I don’t see how your model does that.

Let’s get back to ERV’s for a moment. There is a group of ERV’s called PtERV that are found in the genomes of chimps and gorillas, with about 250 insertions found in the chimp genome alone. However, PtERV insertions are not found in human or orangutan genomes.

From these facts, what types of predictions would your common genetic template make for the specific loci where these insertions are found in each genome, and why? Should PtERV insertions be found at the same spot in chimp and gorilla genomes, or should they be found in different places in each genome? As a comparison, more than 99% of the 200,000 ERV’s in the human genome are found at the same exact spot in the chimp genome.

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Why label it as an “idea” and not as a hypothesis? It makes clear, testable predictions.

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Truth comes from reality, not the other way around.