Spier's Plan for Peace with YEC

Continuing the discussion from Rauser: What’s Wrong with YEC:

I do not get it. Please explain @r_speir.

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Minkowski spacetime is four-dimensional – 3 spatial and 1 temporal. In speaking of God, we are quick to say “God is everywhere”, but of course, we usually mean spatially only, not thinking that there is an entire dimension of time that God can equally occupy simultaneously - past and present and future.

If on creation day 1 God creates the earth (say as a ball of water) in the Minkowski present or “now”, then 2 to 3 days later, occupies a temporal Minkowski dimension that predates the “now” of earth by 14 billion years and creates the Universe, then the “now” of earth on creation days 3 and 4 would be transformed. Days 3 to 4 would witness the water of earth transformed into a mature geology of land masses, mountains, seas. As well, the sky would be flooded with a fully mature and vast Universe, including sun and moon. The days of creation in the Minkowski “now” would remain as 24 hour days.

Add Lucifer the Light Bringer to stand in place of the sun for three full rotations of the planet.

Benefits: a vast universe in 4 days. Distant starlight here. Accelerated aging of planetary material in earth. Finally an answer to “where did the light come from for 3 days”?. Etc, etc,

I don’t really see how this helps. They can have six day creation with GAE, entirely consistent with mainstream science. That seems far more coherent.

It does. But the question is Do you want it to? There is peace here.

Isn’t this all just a complex way of saying that God’s days are different than ours?

No, because the addition of Minkowski spacetime seats it fully in physical science, reality. This time it is truly an argument from a science perspective.

@physicists, can you make any sense out of this?

@stcordova, @J.E.S, @PDPrice is this even acceptable to you any ways?

Presumably Lucifer is by this time a fallen angel - actually, the leader of fallen angels. Why would Lucifer be around during the supposed creation week “helping” God? Why would God allow it?

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No. How else do I say it but simply no.

Creation happened, shortly thereafter the Fall happened, but this was before Lucifer rebelled against God?

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I am pretty sure you don’t know the timeline, nor do I. I say Lucifer was the Light Bringer to earth for three days. You are welcome to overthrow that, but I could not say how you would possibly even begin to do that. We can disagree. How about that?

This is just “hypertime”, the idea that God exists in or experiences some higher temporal dimension than the time dimension of our universe.

I can only put this bluntly: it’s theologically and philosophically questionable at best, and downright silly at worst.


So it is a sloppy version of Hud Hudson’s hypertime Fall? Sounds about right if that is the case.

Bit of a tangent, but it may not be the case that Satan fell until shortly before the human fall in Genesis 3. So could be after the creation week in a YEC timeline.

Maybe but it’s assuming a lot of things.


Not really. The bible doesn’t say exactly when Satan fell. So it’s not assuming anything more than the position saying that he fell much earlier than Genesis 3.


I think this makes very clear that Scripture is not giving us the whole story, but just that of Adam, Eve, and their descendants. The back story has many details left unsaid.


It is completely untestable, so it can neither be proven nor disproven. Will you admit there is zero supporting evidence, in science or in scripture?


We know that angelic and demonic realms are outside of our four spacetime dimensions, and therefore we can say nothing at all about their time dimension(s).

I knever heard of this lucifer thing. The bible says on day one GOD created light and divided the light from the dark. There was no need for another source for light. so light is explained as created unrelated to sources. Saying there is a light problem from distant stars is saying the light from same stars is from the stars. Genesis says its not from the stars. Who you gonna believe?
As a YEC you must allow, a option, that light does not have a source or speed. Instead something just moves through the light ether/field. why not?
no other culture when talking about origins ever mentioned light as important. This because the bible was created by God and not a human culture.
Hey speir what evidence do you have that light moves from here to there? This must be settled before distant light issues come up!!